MINUTES OF MEETING

      ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON ELECTIONS AND PROCEDURES

 

      Sixty-seventh Session

      May 4, 1993

 

 

 

The Assembly Committee on Elections and Procedures was called to order by Chairman Myrna T. Williams at 3:38 p.m., Tuesday, May 4, 1993, in Room 331 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada.  Exhibit A is the Meeting Agenda, Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster.

 

 

COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:

 

      Mrs. Myrna T. Williams, Chairman

      Mr. Robert E. Price, Vice Chairman

      Mrs. Jan Evans

      Mr. Val Z. Garner

      Mr. David E. Humke

      Mrs. Joan A. Lambert

      Mr. William A. Petrak

 

COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT:

 

      Mr. Joseph E. Dini, Jr.(Excused)

      Mr. Gene T. Porter            (Excused)

      Mr. Robert M. Sader           (Excused)

      Mr. Scott Scherer       (Excused)

 

GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT:

 

      None

 

STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:

 

      Mr. Robert Erickson/Research Director, Legislative Counsel Bureau

      Mr. John T. Crossley/Director, Legislative Counsel Bureau

      Mr. Gary Crews/Legislative Auditor, Legislative Counsel Bureau

 

OTHERS PRESENT:

 

      Mr. James W. Hulse/Chair of the Board of Governors, Common Cause/Nevada

      Ms. Jan Gilbert/League of Women Voters

      Ms. Ande Engleman/Nevada Press Association

      Ms. Paula Treat

 

 

Chairman Williams opened the meeting by informing the committee several members were in Las Vegas for a hearing and were excused.

 

AB 4:Requires lobbyists to provide additional information in registration statements and monthly reports.

 

Assemblyman Price, District No. 17, prime sponsor of AB 4,  described a newsletter, "State Trends," started by the Council on State Governments, Intergovernmental Committee on which he served.  The first issue described trends regarding ethics, registration, campaign reform and lobbyist reporting in the various legislatures in the United States.

 

Mr. Price submitted Exhibit C which included amounts lobbyists spent for each legislator for the first three months of 1993. 

He declared AB 4 would be a small but positive step to give more information about what was perceived to unduly influence legislators.

 

Mr. Price suggested amendments to AB 4, and the final version would show money spent on each legislator and each employee of the Counsel Bureau or legislature.  An example of a possible report was included in AB 4.  Mr. Price suggested an amendment which would omit language in lines 8 through 13, "If any such person...," which included salaries for lobbyists who were paid for their work.  Mr. Price suggested an amendment on page 2, line 25, to omit the words "another registrant or."  On page 3, lines 5 and 6, Mr. Price suggested omitting the words "and any person by whom he is retained or employed."

 

Under present laws, Mr. Price stated, a time certain for a lobbyist to register and to register a client did not exist, and he suggested a time certain be included in the legislation. 

 

Mr. Gary Crews, Legislative Auditor, Legislative Counsel Bureau, introduced Exhibit D, a technical correction amendment which he believed was necessary.  Mr. Price felt Mr. Crews' amendment was appropriate.

 

Mr. James W. Hulse, Common Cause, testified in support of AB 4.  (See Exhibit E.)  He called attention to other bills for electoral and legislative reform which had not come forward.  He approved the bill recently introduced by Assemblyman Heller to account for money to candidacies through political caucuses, and bills authored by Assemblyman de Braga, AB 381 and AB 382, on persons who lobby immediately after leaving the legislature.  He felt this legislation would clean up the legislative process and restore public confidence.

 

Responding to Mr. Hulse's testimony, Chairman Williams stated AB 4 was originally scheduled for hearing the day after the death of Mr. Joyce.  The sponsor of AB 4 determined it would not be in the best taste to hear AB 4 the day after Mr. Joyce's death and had asked Chairman Williams to reschedule the hearing. 

 

Mrs. Williams further rebutted Mr. Hulse's position by stating it was illegal for any legislator to take money during the legislative session, and she asked anyone who knew of such a situation to record it and press charges.  AB 4 was a fine bill, she declared.  Mrs. Williams concluded her remarks by declaring she saw no reason to discuss the reputation of someone who was no longer living and who had contributed so much to the state of Nevada.

 

The chair recognized Mr. Garner who discussed his concern with Mr. Hulse's testimony on page 3 of Exhibit E, "...the public know more precisely from whom our legislative candidates...."  Mr. Garner asked if Mr. Hulse's statement meant when people were running for office.  Mr. Garner continued his reference of the same sentence which read, "...are taking money and with whom they are dealing in a monetary manner while the legislature is in session."  Mr. Garner proclaimed the comments were a broad accusation and if founded in fact, people should be prosecuted. 

Mr. Hulse responded no accusation was being made.  He contended much money was spent for lobbying which was not accounted for.

 

Mr. Garner countered by referencing Mr. Hulse's testimony on page 3 of Exhibit E which stated dealing in a monetary manner was taking place while legislature was in session.  Mr. Garner asked Mr. Hulse if he was aware of this kind of activity or did he assume this activity took place.

 

Mr. Hulse replied he did not assume anything illegal or improper was transpiring but a lot of money was spent by lobbyists, and the public knew very little about how the money was used.  If Nevada had a better disclosure law, he felt many perceptions would be overcome. 

 

Mr. Garner declared his support of AB 4 and pointed out he was a sponsor of the bill, but he did not agree with Mr. Hulse's testimony that everyone who served and walked the halls of the legislature was a scoundrel or some kind of thief.

 

Mr. Petrak conveyed he was a member of Common Cause.  He pointed out last session a bill was passed which assured the page 3 activities would not take place.  Mr. Petrak further commented to his knowledge it did not take place.  Mr. Petrak said Mr. Hulse's innuendoes were unfair to legislators.

 

Mr. Hulse responded, "We seem to be in agreement on the virtues of the bill, and the fuller the disclosure, the fewer will be the kind of suspicions that truly exist in the minds of the public."

 

Mrs. Williams addressed Mr. Hulse and asked in his future testimonies that he address merits of the bill and not personalities of people with whom he might or might not agree.  She further commented innuendos perpetuated loss of faith in government, and as an example she discussed the rumor AB 4 would not be heard.

 

Mr. Price confirmed the delay of the hearing on AB 4 was his suggestion. 

 

Mr. Hulse declared he drew no inferences from the delay of the bill and did not make that assertion.  He did say, however, Common Cause was disturbed and troubled that a bill this good introduced so early had taken so long to get to hearing.

 

Mrs. Williams reminded Mr. Hulse numerous good bills existed and members of the legislature serve on other committees with major funding problems in which members of the committee were involved. 

 

Ms. Jan Gilbert, League of Women Voters of Nevada, testified in support of AB 4 and suggested amendments by Mr. Price.  Many concerned lobbyists were present in the hearing, she noted.  She felt it important the public knew lobbyists were taking legislators to lunch to talk about legislation.  She felt it was important to get rid of the false assumption that lobbyists were doing underhanded things.  She urged the committee to pass AB 4.

 

Ms. Ande Engleman, Nevada Press Association, spoke in favor of AB 4 as amended and urged committee to pass the legislation.  Full disclosure to the public was important to allow the public to approve or disapprove and express their feelings at the ballot box.

 

Ms. Paula Treat, Lobbyist, testified regarding California lobbyist law and stated California's law did not work because of restraints.  Ms. Treat believed occasionally lobbyists did not register and the bill should address this problem.  She also felt all clients should be registered.  Ms. Treat discussed matters pertaining to disclosure which she approved, and asked the committee to be flexible in reporting requirements of subject matter.  She urged the committee not to put caps on.  She approved Mr. Price's amendment which would delete income reporting as she felt income was personal. 

 

Mrs. Williams referenced Mr. Price's amendments and requested comments from Ms. Treat.  Ms. Treat referred to page 2, lines 25 through 31, which related to itemization.

 

Discussion ensued between Mr. Price, Ms. Treat, and Mr. Crews regarding lobbyist expenditures, related reporting procedures and bookkeeping requirements.

 

Ms. Treat called attention to page 3, lines 5 through 9 and thought legislative auditing of lobbyist books seemed broad.

 

Mr. Price believed the amendment could be confined to money spent on legislators in order that the auditors would not have to go through other books which would be unrelated. 

 

Mr. Crews' comments stressed separate records should be kept by lobbyists for activities which involved lobbying, and he opposed intermixing personal records or other business records.

 

Discussion ensued between Mr. Humke and Ms. Treat regarding average expenses per legislator which Mr. Humke did not feel should be a method of reporting.

 

Mrs. Williams expressed averaging was a more fair way of determining the amount spent on a legislator.

 

Mr. Humke expressed the possibility of amending AB 4 to list everyone who attended a function and to include constitutional officers and executive branch employees.

 

Mr. Price declared his philosophy was to take a small step at a time.  He felt Mr. Humke's suggestions would be addressed because they were important, but he did not believe Nevada would have legislation which covered it in a bill this year or next year.

 

Mrs. Lambert noted she would occasionally forget to reply to an invitation to a function which she could not attend and would receive thank you notes for coming to the function.  She asked Ms. Treat if she would have any idea how many attended?  Ms. Treat said sometimes not and commented on honesty in disclosure on the subject.

 

Regarding page 3, line 3 of AB 4, "Direct the legislative auditor to make any audit...," Mr. Petrak asked Mr. Crews how it was determined by the legislative auditor who should be audited.

 

Mr. Crews said in the legislation with suggested amendment (Exhibit D)  the Legislative Commission would have to direct the legislative auditor to perform such an audit, but the audit would not be conducted on a regular basis.

 

In response to a question by Mr. Petrak, Mr. Crews replied something would probably be brought to the attention of the Director of the Legislative Counsel Bureau who would take it to the Legislative Commission which would make the decision for the audit to be conducted.

 

Mr. Price spoke regarding Wisconsin's reporting of lobbyists expenses.

 

Mrs. Williams asked Mr. Price and Mr. Humke to work the amendments for AB 4. 

 

      ASSEMBLYMAN PRICE MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS AB 4.

 

Mr. Humke offered an amendment to include the executive branch.

 

Mrs. Williams reiterated her request for Mr. Price and Mr. Humke to work the amendments.

 

Mrs. Williams asked Mr. Price to withdraw his motion to amend and do pass AB 4.

 

      ASSEMBLYMAN PRICE WITHDREW MOTION TO AMEND AND DO PASS AB 4.

 

Mrs. Williams asked for a motion to amend and rerefer AB 4 to allow full committee discussion and approval of amendments.

 

      ASSEMBLYMAN PRICE MOVED TO AMEND AND REREFER.

 

      ASSEMBLYMAN HUMKE SECONDED THE MOTION.

 

      THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY BY THOSE PRESENT.  ASSEMBLYMEN DINI, PORTER, SADER, SCHERER, AND EVANS WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE. 

 

For clarification, Mr. Garner reiterated AB 4 would be brought back to the committee after the amendments were written.

 

ACR 29:     Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of exemptions to laws governing public records and books.

 

Mrs. Williams stated the committee was scheduled to hear ACR 29, but Mr. Porter, who chaired the interim committee which was the genesis of ACR 29, was in another meeting and unable to be present.  Mrs. Williams stated Mr. Porter had asked her (Mrs. Williams) if Ms. Engleman could testify on his behalf since he was in a meeting. 

 

Ms. Engleman told Chairman Williams she would testify briefly if the Chairman wished.

 

Mrs. Williams stated in order for the full committee to hear all testimony, she would reschedule ACR 29 to be heard at a later date.

 

ACR 23:     Urges state board of education, board of regents and boards of trustees of school districts to end gender bias in educational system.

 

Mrs. Williams stated a work session was scheduled for ACR 23.  Ms. Giunchigliani was not present, and Mrs. Lambert, who was a member of the subcommittee on ACR 23, discussed the amendments recommended by the subcommittee.

 

Mrs. Lambert pointed out Mrs. Lusk and Mrs. Gang proposed the amendments which make the bill more gender equitable by including boys and girls in many instances. 

 

Mrs. Lambert stated the amendment on line 29 deleted students  and inserted boys and girls including the manner in which they are disciplined.

 

Mrs. Lambert stated the amendment on page 2, line 34 deleted must be carried out and inserted should be considered.

 

Mrs. Lambert discussed items which were deleted from ACR 23 by the subcommittee and reasons for the deletions.

 

Mrs. Williams confirmed with Mrs. Lambert the amendments were an agreement by all parties interested in the resolution.

 

      ASSEMBLYMAN HUMKE MOVED TO AMEND AND ADOPT ACR 23.

 

      ASSEMBLYMAN GARNER SECONDED THE MOTION.

 

      THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY BY THOSE PRESENT.

      ASSEMBLYMEN DINI, PORTER, SADER, SCHERER, AND EVANS WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.

 

There being no further business to come before committee, the meeting was adjourned at 4:42 p.m.

 

      RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:

 

 

 

                             

      BOBBIE MIKESELL

      Committee Secretary

??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Assembly Committee on Elections and Procedures

May 4, 1993

Page: 1