MINUTES OF MEETING

      ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS

 

      Sixty-seventh Session

      April 6, 1993

 

 

 

The Assembly Committee on Government Affairs was called to order by Chairman Val Z. Garner at 8:06 a.m., Tuesday, April 6, 1993, in Room 330 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada.  Exhibit A is the Meeting Agenda.  Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster.

 

 

COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:

 

      Mr. Val Z. Garner, Chairman

      Mr. Rick C. Bennett, Vice Chairman

      Mrs. Kathy M. Augustine

      Mr. Douglas A. Bache

      Mrs. Marcia de Braga

      Mr. Pete Ernaut

      Mrs. Vivian L. Freeman

      Mr. Lynn Hettrick

      Mrs. Erin Kenny

      Mrs. Joan A. Lambert

      Mr. James W. McGaughey

      Mr. Roy Neighbors

      Mrs. Gene W. Segerblom

      Mr. Wendell P. Williams

 

 

COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT:

 

      None

 

GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT:

 

      Assemblyman David Humke, District 26

 

STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:

 

      Dana Bennett, Research Analyst

      Lorne Malkiewich, Legislative Counsel

 

OTHERS PRESENT:

 

      Dave Nicholas, Nevada Health Care Association; Jon Sasser, Coordinator Litigation and Training, Nevada Legal Services; Myla Florence, Administrator, State Welfare Division; Douglas Dickerson, Legislative Lobbyist, City of Las Vegas; Frank Hawkins Jr., Councilman, City of Las Vegas; Richard B. Blue, Jr., Intergovernmental & Community Relations Coordinator, City of Las Vegas; Brian Wallace, Chairman, Washoe Tribe of Nevada and California; Larry Jepson, Executive Director, Southern Nevada Foundation for Fair Contracting; Kathryn Greene, Director of Purchasing, Washoe County School District; Dale Sanderson, Plant Facilities Administrator, Plant Facilities, Washoe County School District; Carolyne Edwards, Clark County School District; Jack Jeffrey, Southern Nevada Building and Construction Trade Council; John Balentine, Purchasing Director, Washoe County; Pam Miller, Associated General Contractors; Gaylyn Spriggs, Self; Doug Busselman, Executive Vice President, Nevada Farm Bureau; Carole Vilardo, Nevada Taxpayers Association; Ron Lange, Administrative Services Officer and Deputy Administrator, State Division of Health; Lew Dodgion, Administrator, Nevada Division of Environmental Protection; John Mendoza, Chairman, Public Service Commission; Karl L. Sannicks, Assistant Director, Department of Prisons; Chas Horsey, Administrator, Housing; Bob Bayer, Parole and Probation; Scott Young, General Counsel, State Industrial Insurance System; David Reese, Attorney, Nevada State Contractors Board; Wayne Perock, Chief of Field Operations, Nevada Division of State Parks; Mike Turnipseed, State Engineer; Ray Sparks, Chief, Department of Motor Vehicles and Public Safety; Jonathan Andrews, Chief Deputy Attorney General, Office of the Attorney General; John Perry Comeaux, Executive Director, Department of Taxation; Pam Wilcox, Administrator, Divisions of State Lands and Conservation Districts; Carl Cahill, Director, Division of Environmental Health Services, Washoe County Health District. 

 

ASSEMBLY BILL NO. 247 -Requires welfare division of department of human resources to comply with Nevada Administrative Procedure Act.

 

Dave Nicholas, representing Nevada Health Care Association,  testified AB 247 would essentially take the Welfare Division and place it under the Administrative Procedures Act, which he proceeded to describe.  Mr. Nicholas then introduced Exhibit C, an amendment which he said would lighten the load on welfare.  In concluding comments Mr. Nicholas said, "It may be this year, for the first time in some years, a number of parties will come together with a basic agreement as to exactly how this should be done.  You may hear two methods: the first one is ours which keeps them under administrative procedures and takes out contested cases; there will be others who will testify here today who will also see that regulations should indeed be reviewed but may request different directions.  As a result you may also hear a request for a small subcommittee so that we can hammer out the details of the situation.  From our standpoint....the thing we are interested in is new regulations being properly reviewed."

 

Jon Sasser, Coordinator Litigation and Training, Nevada Legal Services, supported the concept of AB 247, agreed to work with a subcommittee regarding issues which had been raised by Myla Florence and Nancy Angres, Welfare Division, and suggested it might be possible to change Chapter 422 instead of subjecting the Welfare Division to the requirements of the APA.

 

Myla Florence, Administrator, State Welfare Division, introduced Nancy Angres, Chief Deputy Attorney General, State Welfare Division, and presented prepared testimony (Exhibit D) in opposition to AB 247.  Concluding testimony included a request to send the bill to a subcommittee for review.

 

Chairman Garner assigned Mr. Ernaut to chair a subcommittee composed of Mrs. Freeman and Mr. Bennett to handle AB 247.

 

The hearing on AB 247 was closed.

 

ASSEMBLY BILL NO. 248 -Establishes preference in award of contracts for provision of goods or services to local government for contractors with substantial minority labor forces.

 

Douglas Dickerson, Legislative Lobbyist, City of Las Vegas,  introduced Frank Hawkins Jr., Councilman, City of Las Vegas, and Richard B. Blue, Jr., Intergovernmental & Community Relations Coordinator, City of Las Vegas.  Mr. Dickerson told the committee AB 248 was a Las Vegas bill which Mr. Blue would explain.  Prepared testimony (Exhibit E), which included a proposed amendment, was distributed to the committee and verbalized by Mr. Blue.  In closing, Mr. Hawkins added, "I would only like to address you from the council and myself who wholeheartedly support this bill.  I am sure you are aware that we have a few others that relate to, more specifically 338, lowest responsive, responsible bidder, but at this time I am here to be Richard Blue's support and backup."

 

Mrs. de Braga asked how a sealed bid was handled to ensure a minority would be included and considered, and to derive a fair share of contracts based on dollar amounts.  Mr. Blue replied, "In the area of sealed bids, we have an open bid situation.  It is part of the documentation accompanying the bid.  Before we determine the lowest responsive, responsible bidder, we would ask you to certify what your employment profile is of your firm."

 

Mrs. Segerblom asked Mr. Hawkins if the city council had voted on the bill.  Mr. Hawkins answered, "The city council voted on all of the bills to come to the north from the City of Las Vegas, but I do have some that they didn't vote on."

 

Mrs. Augustine wanted to know why women were added as an afterthought as she had noticed they were not mentioned in the original bill on line 4.  Mr. Blue said women had not been an afterthought, the bill had not been drafted as originally intended.  But he added the primary intent was to amend section 338 of the purchasing act.

 

Mr. Williams commented in support of the legislation by suggesting the legislature should allow local governments to operate more efficiently in giving everyone a fair chance and lamented the need for such type of legislation.

 

Brian Wallace, Chairman, Washoe Tribe of Nevada and California,

testified in favor of AB 248, detailing his reasons why.

 

Larry Jepson, Executive Director, Southern Nevada Foundation for Fair Contracting, submitted and read Exhibit F to the committee.

Adding to his prepared testimony, Mr. Jepson said, "The way this bill is written it will not work.  I believe this committee should postpone this bill indefinitely."

 

Mr. Williams asked Mr. Jepson how his organization defined minority.  Mr. Jepson replied he was not going to try to define minority, Congress had been trying to define it for 30 years.  A heated discussion ensued regarding the term "minority," fair contracting practices in Nevada, and whether language needed to be added to the bill to render it "fair."  Mr. Jepson said it was not language which was needed, it was funds to enforce the rules and regulations.  A further discussion followed between Mr. Jepson and Mr. Williams.

 

Mr. Bennett stated he was not familiar with the organization represented by Mr. Jepson, therefore, he queried what the organization was and who made up its membership.  Mr. Jepson said, "We're a labor/management organization established as a nonprofit corporation within the state of Nevada.  We are registered with the federal government under a 501C6 and are funded by management and labor.  We try to compile information and data on public works process for labor and management.  We try to assist those workers who are not being paid the proper wages, are not being paid at all, or are not being paid the prevailing wage within the southern part of the state of Nevada.  I might add, Mr. Williams, over 75 percent of those people in which we try to help are minorities as you define them.  We seem to have a problem there that people want to take advantage of these minorities as defined in the payment of their wages." 

Mr. Bennett then asked who the members were.  Mr. Jepson answered there were 35,000 members in southern Nevada.

 

Kathryn Greene, Director of Purchasing, Washoe County School District, testified she had no additional information to add to Mr. Jepson's testimony.  But one concern of hers was the substantial aspect of the bill had not been clearly defined.  In addition she wanted to know who was going to regulate the legislation, suggesting it would be costly to keep track of what was going on.  She stated other issues she found questionable and said the bill needed work.

 

Mrs. Segerblom asked Mr. Jepson if he represented any labor unions.  The reply was, "Some members of the foundation are members of local unions....as individuals."

 

Dale Sanderson, Plant Facilities Administrator, Plant Facilities, Washoe County School District, offered prepared testimony (Exhibit G) presented from the public works perspective which also contained suggestions to enhance the bill.

 

Mr. Williams stated the suggestions were reasonable and asked Mr. Sanderson if the suggestions were addressed if he foresaw a problem with moving forward with AB 248.  Mr. Sanderson replied no with comment.  When questioned further he said, "Personally, I think we need to work with minority contractors to make sure they are as competitive as anyone else, and perhaps through the education standpoint.  I really can't say if this will achieve the goal you are trying to achieve, but I think it is administrativable (if that is a word) with the changes I have suggested."  Further discussion ensued regarding minority contracting in the past.

 

Carolyne Edwards, Clark County School District, testified all concerns had been covered by previous testifiers, therefore, she stated the school district would be pleased to work with amendments to the bill, supporting the concept of AB 248.

 

Jack Jeffrey, Southern Nevada Building and Construction Trade Council, said he was not currently opposed to the bill as it stood because he was not sure it applied to the construction industry or to the people he represented.  However, he stated if the bill was amended to put the language of AB 248 into Chapter 338, there would be a major problem.  He then stated why.

 

Mrs. de Braga commented the purpose of the criteria or the suggested percentage was to correct the condition of not having contractors who could meet the requirement.  Additionally, she thought the apprentice program was an excellent opportunity to start the process.  Mr. Jeffrey then commented why the apprentice program, although successful, did not necessarily lend itself to the suggested legislation.

 

John Balentine, Purchasing Director, Washoe County, testified the amendments previously presented answered a good number of his questions.  However, he did not feel AB 248 addressed the ownership of the business, only the number of employees or the percentage of employees.  He next gave an illustration utilizing real numbers versus percentages, questioned the definition of "smaller amount," and discussed guarding the public trust.  In conclusion, Mr. Balentine read a paragraph from the testimony of Mr. Les Jackson, Director of Technical Services, National Institute of Government Purchasing, into the record, "Preferences for goods and services, whether they are buy America, buy instate, buy local, buy recycled, arguably may have value to the American taxpayer, but they do cost the taxpayer more money and they are impediments to competition."

 

Mrs. Kenny suggested "costing more to the taxpayer" was the smaller view of the matter.  Looking at the broader view she said, "If you continue to keep minorities from getting better paying jobs or bidding on contracts, they have less money to spend.  They become perhaps welfare.  We pay for it either way.  Isn't that true?"  Mr. Balentine agreed it was true if minorities were actually being kept from bidding, but he countered, "In our view, when you do not offer preferences of any kind, when you keep that playing field absolutely level, everybody then has an equal opportunity to competitively bid on a contract."  Mrs. Kenny then suggested it was not a level field, it was a whole cycle of how money circulated through the process.  Mr. Balentine agreed.

 

Chairman Garner referenced a letter received from Jane Countryman and asked that it be entered into the record as Exhibit H.

 

Pam Miller, Associated General Contractors, said she was not opposed to the bill as written, but if the bill was going to include Chapter 338 she wanted the opportunity to look at the language and testify to it in the future.

 

Mr. Hawkins gave a closing summary addressing the concerns of each testifier.

 

The hearing on AB 248 was closed with no action taken.  Chairman Garner said it was his intention to establish a subcommittee to address the concerns heard and to move forward, if possible, with the best legislation.  He said he would announce the members of the subcommittee in a day or two, and future meetings would be posted to allow everyone the opportunity to participate

in crafting the kind of legislation needed.

 

ASSEMBLY BILL NO. 378 -Imposes temporary moratorium on adoption of state regulations and creates advisory committee to study such regulations.

 

Assemblyman David Humke, District 26, presented Exhibit I, prepared testimony and Exhibit J, an amendment.  He then asked Lorne Malkiewich, Legislative Counsel, to give a brief history of the regulatory process to the committee, which he did.

 

Mrs. Augustine asked if the fiscal note was before the advisory committee and she wanted to know how much it was.  Mr. Humke replied it was his understanding it was and the amount was $1,700.

 

Mrs. Lambert referenced the informational statement with the adopted regulation which was filed with the Secretary of State  and asked if the findings (which she read) were included in those informational statements.  Mr. Malkiewich said his office was required by law to withhold the filing of a regulation until an informational statement was provided.  He added if something purported to be an informational statement, no matter how much or how little detail was provided, the regulation was filed.  He did mention one thing some agencies did on public comment was to indicate they had hearings on certain days and minutes and tapes were available.  Some agencies gave very detailed statements of the impact, others had little impact, while some had limited descriptions.  He then offered to provide samples.

 

Mrs. Freeman asked Mr. Humke if he had spoken to other states to find out how they were handling similar problems.  Mr. Humke replied no.

 

Gaylyn Spriggs, speaking for herself, said she was in favor of looking at regulations.  She gave her own personal experience encountered in the 1991 session and said, "It is incredible to me the amount of regulations that was being promulgated in a years time....I think its time we look at what we are doing."

 

Doug Busselman, Executive Vice President, Nevada Farm Bureau, stated as an advocacy group for industry and agriculture, a lot of time was spent involved in numerous regulatory pursuits.  He said he understood the frustration ordinary citizens had who did not have the time or opportunity to participate full-fledged in the process.  He then testified his group's main interest was to support the idea of performing the study.

 

Carole Vilardo, Nevada Taxpayers Association, testified there were major concerns regarding the administrative regulations and how they would be implemented.  She stated a bill had been requested of Senator O'Connell to clean up a lot of the inequities in the way regulations were being handled.  In conclusion, she asked for support of the other bill, said the interim study as mentioned in AB 378 was important, and it was necessary to take a good look at some of the regulations which currently existed on the books.

 

Ron Lange, Administrative Services Officer and Deputy Administrator, Nevada State Division of Health, submitted and read prepared testimony (Exhibit K) in opposition to AB 378.

 

Lew Dodgion, Administrator, Nevada Division of Environmental Protection, referenced Exhibit L, a letter he had received from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and read his prepared testimony (Exhibit M), which opposed the moratorium and supported the interim study, into the record.

 

John Mendoza, Chairman, Public Service Commission, introduced Terry Page, Director of Operations, Public Service Commission, and said his organization was concerned about AB 378.  He submitted Exhibit N for examination by the committee and said the bill raised a number of questions.  Mr. Mendoza's comments detailed unintended consequences, opposed the moratorium, and encouraged the interim study.

 

Karl Sannicks, Assistant Director, Department of Prisons, asked for an exemption from AB 378 for his department, stating his department performed a unique mission by providing security and safety to the public and to the institutions to which the inmates were assigned.

 

Chas Horsey, Administrator, Housing, submitted Exhibit O, written testimony in opposition to AB 378.

 

Bob Bayer, representing the Department of Parole and Probation, asked to go on record asking for an exemption, stating his reasons why.  He too thought the study was a good idea.

 

Scott Young, General Counsel, State Industrial Insurance System, stated his observations to the committee, citing historical reasons.  He suggested considering, as an alternative to a moratorium, the provision under the open meeting law which allowed people to notify an agency they wanted to be put on a list for six months.  Thereafter, written notice had to be sent to those on the list regarding any meetings held by the body.

In closing, he supported the study group.

 

David Reese, Attorney, Nevada State Contractors Board, asked to go on record as opposing AB 378 as it currently stood.  He also asked for an exemption if the bill passed, stating the reasons why.

 

Wayne Perock, Chief of Field Operations, Nevada Division of State Parks, objected to AB 378 utilizing Exhibit P.  In conclusion he stated his agency objected to the moratorium.

 

Mike Turnipseed, State Engineer, said he had very few rules and regulations, yet he was being criticized by members of the legislature, members of the general public and attorneys for not having enough.  He said he had committed certain members of the legislature to adopt rules and regulations pertaining to hearings.  He then cited a rule which was going to be changed in the next legislative session.

 

Ray Sparks, Chief, Department of Motor Vehicles and Public Safety, briefly stated the department would support the study on the regulatory process, but it had concerns about the moratorium.  He added if programs were moved from one agency to another under reorganization, massive regulation changes might become necessary.

 

Jonathan Andrews, Chief Deputy Attorney General, Office of the Attorney General, stated his office had analyzed AB 378 from the clients standpoint and the kind of problems the legislation might raise.  He then provided the committee with Exhibit Q, a copy of the analysis.

 

Perry Comeaux, Executive Director, Department of Taxation, spoke in opposition to AB 378 saying business and commerce were not static.  He stated it was absolutely essential the Nevada Tax Commission have the ability to react to those changes and adopt regulations to clearly express to the taxpayers what is required of them.

 

Jerry Allen, Coordinator, Child Care & Development Block and Title IV-A "At Risk" Grants, provided written testimony (Exhibit R) in opposition to AB 378.  In addition, Mr. Allen read Myla Florence's additional statement (Exhibit S) into the record.

 

Pam Wilcox, Administrator, Divisions of State Lands and Conservation Districts, submitted written testimony (Exhibit T) and said her concerns were the same as the previous testifiers.

 

Carl Cahill, Director, Division of Environmental Health Services, Washoe County Health District, stated he and his agency were in opposition to the moratorium on regulations.

 

Mr. Humke closed by saying he had talked to a few witnesses who wished to appear in favor of AB 378, therefore, he asked the chair to keep the record open to accept written comments.

 

Chairman Garner asked for all written comments to be submitted to the committee.

 

The hearing on AB 378 was closed with no action taken.

 

Chairman Garner appointed Mr. Bennett to chair a subcommittee on AB 337 assigning Mrs. Lambert, Mr. Williams and Mr. Hettrick to assist.

 

In reply to a comment by Mr. Ernaut regarding a requested bill draft, Mr. Garner said it would be discussed in the committee meeting of Wednesday, April 7, 1993.

 

There being no further business to come before committee, the meeting was adjourned at 10:58 a.m.

 

 

      RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:

 

 

                             

      BETTY WILLS

      Committee Secretary

??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Assembly Committee on Government Affairs

April 6, 1993

Page: 1