MINUTES OF MEETING
ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES, AGRICULTURE AND MINING
Sixty-seventh Session
February 1, 1993
The Assembly Committee on Natural Resources, Agriculture and Mining was called to order by Chairman Vivian L. Freeman at 1:30 p.m., February 1, 1993, in Room 321 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Meeting Agenda, Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster.
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mrs. Vivian L. Freeman, Chairman
Mr. John B. Regan, Vice Chairman
Mr. Douglas A. Bache
Mr. John C. Carpenter
Ms. Marcia de Braga
Mr. Peter G. Ernaut
Mr. James A. Gibbons
Mr. Roy Neighbors
Mr. Robert M. Sader
Mr. Michael A. Schneider
Ms. Stephanie Smith
COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT:
None
GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT:
None
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:
Fred Welden, Chief Deputy Research Director
Denice Miller, Senior Research Analysts
OTHERS PRESENT:
Lisa Foster, City of Sparks; Ron Irwin, City of Reno Fire Chief; Verne Rosse, Nevada Division of Environmental Protection; Marty Scheuerman, Truckee Meadows Fire Protection District; Bob Andrews, State Emergency Response Commission; Carole Vilardo, Nevada Taxpayers Association.
Chairman Freeman called the meeting to order and roll was called.
Denice Miller, Senior Research Analysts gave an overview of hazardous waste bills, (Exhibit C).
The hearing was opened on A.B. 122.
ASSEMBLY BILL 122:
Expands costs for which money may be expended and recovered regarding response to accident involving hazardous material.
Mr. Gibbons asked if it was the intent of the study to include natural gas as a hazardous material. Ms. Miller replied hazardous materials have been defined differently in sections of the statutes, and she did not know if natural gas would be listed as a hazardous material. In reply to Mr. Gibbons question, propane and LP gas was not discussed by the interim committee, said Ms. Miller, and she referred the question to Verne Rosse of the Nevada Department of Environmental Protection. The word "promptly" used in A.B. 122 was questioned by Mr. Gibbons. Ms. Miller agreed it was a concern and the committee might want to put a time limit in the bill. In answer to Mr. Gibbons question regarding the definition of a Hazardous Materials Team (Haz Mat), Ms. Miller replied the interim study committee had not discussed it, but she informed Mr. Gibbons there were federal guidelines which constituted a Hazardous Materials Team.
Mr. Ernaut asked Ms. Miller if the interim committee intended to single out a "person" from a "company," section 2, subsection 2 of A.B. 122. Ms. Miller said the committee's intent would be for the company as a whole to be responsible.
Mr. Verne Rosse, with the DEP reviewed A.B. 122 and supported the bill. The bill clarified specifically what the department's response would cover, and DEP's budget included a half million dollars each biennium. Mr. Gibbons asked if natural gas, propane or LP gas would be considered a hazardous material. Mr. Rose replied the Public Service Commission and LP Gas Board have that responsibility and the gasses would not be included in A.B. 122. Distinction should have been made in the bill to identify substances which would not be covered, stated Mr. Gibbons.
Mr. Carpenter asked what authority the bill would give to DEP which it does not have now, and Mr. Rosse said it would not change anything for DEP except clarify language. He responded to Mr. Carpenter's questioning of the word "appropriately" and said the first responders, local law enforcement or public safety agency would identify how timely the hazard was handled. Mr. Carpenter questioned the ability to level fines against someone who had done the best he could. Mr. Rosse explained it would not only be the existing industry in the state, but the transit community on the highway which might have an incident in which leverage to pay would be needed.
Lisa Foster, representing the City of Sparks, talked of the need for the bill. Industries and transit vehicles traveling through Sparks could cause a hazardous materials incidence (Exhibit D). The City of Sparks needed language to recover the true cost of mitigating a hazardous materials incident.
Ron Irwin, Sparks Fire Chief, supported Ms. Foster's testimony.
The words "promptly" and "appropriately" must be defined before any reimbursement of fees stated Mr. Gibbons, and he asked for Mr. Irwin's definition of the language. The fire chief said the language meant an immediate response, but Mr. Gibbons said if an incident was promptly and appropriately being cleaned up, how could the City of Sparks be reimbursed for coming on the scene. In Sparks none of the spills had been cleaned up by parties causing the incident, said Mr. Irwin.
Mr. Carpenter asked Mr. Irwin what the difference would be in responding to a hazardous materials spill or a fire call, and would the City of Sparks collect from a fire or other incident not related to hazardous waste. In response to Mr. Carpenter's question, Mr. Irwin said a hazardous spill requires approximately 32 people to respond. A tri-team of Reno, Sparks and Truckee Meadows Fire Districts respond to a level two or greater hazardous spill. The people involved must be paid overtime and the material and disposable equipment used for a spill was expensive. The Sparks Fire Department did not have a budget for disposable equipment and wanted a bill with authority to collect costs from those who cause a spill. The tri-team members each add dollars to fund the cost of equipment, but none of the districts has a budget to recover the total cost. Mr. Carpenter would like a list of those firms which use hazardous material.
Members of the committee discussed the use of the terms "promptly" and "appropriately" and questioned budget limitations of the Sparks Fire Department.
Mr. Fred Welden questioned the use of "promptly" and "appropriately" and said he would do research to clarify the terms.
Mr. Larry Farr, Fire Marshall, City of Reno, supported the concept of reimbursement outlined in A.B. 122. He explained how the tri-team worked and what the responsibilities of costs were.
Mr. Marty Scheuerman, Captain, Truckee Meadows Fire Protection District, said A.B. 122 has two parts, clean up versus response cost recovery. He gave examples of situations the team responds to. The response team does not clean up but contacts the health department which has the responsibility of calling in a contractor to do the cleanup. Mr. Scheuerman gave examples of the cost of equipment for haz mat teams such as decontamination suits which cost $5,000. He explained if two of the suits become contaminated with a chemical which could not be decontaminated, disposal to Beatty would be the alternative. This would mean a cost of $10,000 for new suits.
Mr. Ray Blehm, State Fire Marshall, said the A.C.R. 79 Interim Study Committee was concerned with the need for clarity in recovering the abnormal costs associated with hazardous materials incidents. He explained the language in certain areas of the bill was perplexing but they continued to interpret the funding issues as they related to what could be done in the future and to help local responders reclaim part of their costs.
Chairman Freeman announced A.B. 122 would go to a subcommittee comprised of Mr. Gibbons as Chairman and Ms. de Braga and Mr. Ernaut as members.
Mr. Schneider gave as an example the large hotel fire which occurred in Las Vegas and asked if the cost of fighting the incident would be mitigated to the hotel, particularly if hazardous materials were involved. Mr. Blehm replied the hotel would be responsible if it did not pick up the aftermath of the incident. Mr. Scheuerman noted the small amounts of hazardous materials in a hotel fire would be carbonized by the fire. He spoke of several incidents and the costs associated with them by the responders.
A five minute recess was called by Chairman Freeman.
The meeting was called back to order, and Mr. Joe Johnson representing the Sierra Club was invited to speak. He said the confusion between immediate response for immediate safety and the normal response, which comes under the purview of Environmental Protection, would be important to problems the bills would face. Mr. Johnson believed the State Fire Marshall, Environmental Commission, and separate commissions which have authority over the issues should review the bills for proper language.
Ms. Freeman asked for anyone in opposition of A.B. 122 to speak.
Peter Krueger, Western Petroleum Marketers Association was in opposition to the bill but stated he would work with the subcommittee.
Chairman Freeman closed the hearing on A.B. 122.
ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 4:
Directs state fire marshal to conduct study of feasibility of establishing regional response teams to respond to incidents involving hazardous materials.
Ray Blehm, State Fire Marshall, handed out a report (Exhibit E). The result of the Firefighter Safety Act which occurred from a hazardous materials incident in Kansas, which killed six fire fighters and demolished two fire trucks. This incident resulted in the study of the safety of firefighters and how to deal with haz mat incidents. Mr. Blehm encouraged the committee to read through the report.
The State Fire Marshall stated the cost of establishing regional response teams involving hazardous materials would amount to significant dollars. He talked about the incidents which could occur in rural Nevada and how the rural communities could be helped with training, costs, etc. Northeast Nevada at least would need a response team. The study makes sense, as the federal government has been concerned with more reasonable ways to finance and deal with the issues of training and response costs. The study would be brought before the next session and Mr. Blehm asked for A.C.R. 5 to be approved.
Mr. Marty Scheuerman supported A.C.R. 5 with reservations. He pointed out the study would come before the session in 1995 and by the time it could be put into put into effect, five years would be gone in which the rural counties would not have coverage. He discussed the position of looking at other programs like Oregon's, rather than "reinventing the wheel."
Mrs. Freeman asked Mr. Blehm if Mr. Scheuerman's discussion on researching other programs would be feasible. He replied there were many models available to study. The Chairman asked Mr. Blehm and Mr. Scheuerman to work on the suggestions and report back to the committee.
The hearing was closed on A.C.R. 4.
ASSEMBLY BILL 128:
Authorizes representative of local emergency planning committee to enter certain facilities if necessary to carry out duties of committee.
ASSEMBLYMAN SADER MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE
A.B. 128.
ASSEMBLYMAN NEIGHBORS SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
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Chairman Freeman opened the hearing on A.C.R. 5.
ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 5:
Directs State Emergency Response Commission to conduct study concerning local emergency planning committees and agreements of mutual aid between local entities responding to incidents involving hazardous materials.
Bob Andrews, State Emergency Response Commission,(SERC), stated he had worked closely with the Interim A.C.R. 79 committee and SERC supports A.C.R. 5. In Nevada limited resources require the need to share in a cost effective manner. Mr. Andrews explained the makeup of the commission to the committee. The committee and other agencies would meet with the 17 Local Emergency Planning Committees to study the needs and resources available. The study would establish agreements of mutual aid between local entities responding to incidents of hazardous materials.
Mr. Carpenter believed A.C.R. 4 and 5 were similar enough to work on at the same time. Mr. Andrews did confirm the two agencies had many of the same groups involved. He remarked A.C.R. 5 needed to go forward before A.C.R. 4 could be accomplished. Two grant programs were being worked on at the present time, one addressed Hazardous Materials Transportation Uniform Safety Act which the State Fire Marshall had eluded to and the other would be tied into A.C.R. 4. The other grant subject would be keyed into the subject of A.C.R. 5, responded Mr. Andrews.
Ray Blehm, State Fire Marshall, agreed with Mr. Andrews and informed the committee of their work and commitment on similar issues.
Mrs. Freeman had asked Mr. Andrews and Mr. Blehm to apprise the committee of a recommendation on February 22, 1993.
The hearing was closed on A.C.R. 5.
There being no further business to come before committee, the meeting was adjourned at 3:20 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
PAT MENATH
Committee Secretary
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Assembly Committee on Natural Resources, Agriculture and Mining
February 1, 1993
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