MINUTES OF MEETING

      ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES, AGRICULTURE AND MINING

 

      Sixty-seventh Session

      June 2, 1993

 

 

 

The Assembly Committee on Natural Resources, Agriculture and Mining was called to order by Chairman Vivian L. Freeman at 1:30 p.m., June 2, 1993, in Room 321 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada.  Exhibit A is the Meeting Agenda, Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster.

 

 

COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:

 

      Mrs. Vivian L. Freeman, Chairman

      Mr. John B. Regan, Vice Chairman

      Mr. Douglas A. Bache

      Mr. John C. Carpenter

      Ms. Marcia de Braga

      Mr. Peter G. Ernaut

      Mr. James A. Gibbons

      Mr. Roy Neighbors

      Mr. Michael A. Schneider

      Ms. Stephanie Smith

 

 

COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT:

 

      Mr. Robert M. Sader (Excused)

 

GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT:

 

       Senator Dina Titus

 

STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:

 

       Fred Welden, Chief Deputy Research Director

 

OTHERS PRESENT:

 

      Susan Tingley, Nevada State Board on Geographic Names; Terrill J. Kramer, Nevada State Board on Geographic Names; Dawn Y. Lappin, WHOA; Cathy Barcomb, Nevada Wild Horse Commission; John Chappell; Guy L. Rocha, State Board on Geographic Name and State Library and Archives; Stephanie Licht, Nevada Woolgrower's Association; Tom Bentz, Nevada Alliance for Responsible Animal Use; Paula Berkley, Washoe and Walker River Paiute; Daryl Crawford, Inter-Tribe of Nevada; Craig Downer, Wild Horses in State of Nevada; Charlie N. Porchia; Ned Eyre; Mark McGuire, Nevada Humane Society; Joe Johnson, Sierra Club; Joe Dahl.

 

Mrs. Freeman called the meeting to order.  She asked for permission to introduce BDR R-2097, Ms. de Braga's bill. The bill would urge Congress to oppose proposed legislation which would establish a surcharge on water from federal reclamation projects.

 

      ASSEMBLYMAN BACHE MOVED FOR COMMITTEE INTRODUCTION OF BDR R-2097.

 

      SECONDED BY ASSEMBLYMAN SMITH.

 

      THE MOTION CARRIED.  (ASSEMBLYMAN SCHNEIDER AND SADER WERE ABSENT AT THE TIME OF THE VOTE.) 

 

      ********

 

SENATE BILL 443:

 

      Adds representative of Inter-Tribal Council of Nevada, Inc., to Nevada state board on geographic names.

 

Ms. Susan Tingley, Chairman, Nevada State Board on Geographic Names, distributed a handout (Exhibit C).  Miss Tingley spoke in support of S.B. 443 and emphasized the board did not have a budget and members were volunteers.  She said the board was made up of a representative of each of nine agencies by Legislative Statute. The board requested a 10th agency be added, the Intertribal Council of Nevada.  Ms. Tingley said the board felt the Native American's within Nevada were the first people here and should have a voting say in what policy was being determined as far as naming within the state of Nevada.

 

Mr. Terrill Kramer, Executive Secretary, Nevada State Board on Geographic Names, stated part of his duties was to send the board's recommendations to the National Board together with the rationale behind the recommendations.  He also received policy updates which came from the National Board on Geographic Names.  Mr. Kramer said the boards request also pertained to an updated policy of the Federal Board dealing with Eskimo and Indian names. The policy stated names on a reservation must now have the permission and active support of the tribal entity, and any Indian name which would be applied to an area outside of a reservation should be in consultation with the areas Indian population.

 

Mr. John Chappell, Bureau of Land Management, a new member of the board, strongly encouraged support of S.B. 443.  He felt the placement of a member of the Intertribal Council of Nevada on the board was most important. 

 

Mr. Guy Rocha, State Board on Geographic Names and Nevada State Library and Archives, said he worked closely with tribal entities in Nevada establishing tribal archives and record management programs.  He felt it was most important to have the input from tribal entities for naming of sites, etc. for the decision making process.  He urged support of S.B. 443.

 

Mr. Daryl Crawford, Executive Director of Inter-Tribal Council of Nevada, Inc., spoke from prepared testimony, (Exhibit D), in support of S.B. 443.

 

Mr. Schneider asked how many tribes and reservations there were in Nevada.  Mr. Crawford said there were 25 tribes and reservations and approximately 20,000 tribal members in the 1990 census.

 

Ms. Paula Berkley, representing the Washoe and Walker River Paiute Tribe, said the tribes had worked with the State Economic Development Department, and she remarked one of the three most chosen things for Europeans to see in the United States were Indian Tribes.  She said the tribes would appreciate consideration of S.B. 443.

 

      ASSEMBLYMAN BACHE MOVED TO DO PASS S.B. 443.

 

      ASSEMBLYMAN DE BRAGA SECONDED THE MOTION.

 

      THE MOTION CARRIED.  (ASSEMBLYMEN ERNAUT AND SADER WERE ABSENT AT THE TIME OF THE VOTE.)

 

      ********

 

SENATE BILL 378:

 

      Imposes penalty for unauthorized, intentional killing of wild burro and increases penalty for killing wild horse.

 

Senator Dina Titus, District 7, Clark County, asked the committee to listen to a five minute tape from Michael Blake who wrote the story "Dances With Wolves," and who wanted his testimony in favor of S.B. 378 to be known. She said the bill passed out of the Senate 18-3 and last session 20-1, the bill had considerable support from the other house.  Ms. Titus provided the committee with (EXHIBIT E), which included testimony from several individuals and societies and also included articles pertinent to S.B. 378.  Senator Titus urged support of S.B. 378 to change the penalty to a felony for killing wild horses as they were a part of Nevada's heritage.  A felony would make it a deterrent and prompt law enforcement to pursue the killings of wild horses and burros. 

 

Mr. Neighbors said he supported the bill but had a problem with the felony portion of the bill.  He asked if he came across a horse who needed to be put out of its misery, such as a broken leg, what would happen if he killed the horse.  Senator Titus replied the bill stated to "willfully kill the wild horse."  She said there was discussion of it being too serious of a penalty. Senator Titus commented the penalty might be better changed to a gross misdemeanor with minimum penalties put in place so there would be assurance if a violator was caught they would do jail time.  However, if the penalty was a gross misdemeanor it could be bargained down to a misdemeanor and the incentive would not be there for law enforcement to go after the perpetrator. 

 

Ms. de Braga asked if the language in the bill was new.  Senator Titus replied no, only the amendment was being considered.  Ms. de Braga agreed with the reasoning behind Senator Titus' bill, but felt a felony was too strong.  She gave an example of having to kill her own horse on the range due to some problem.  She could conceivably have to defend herself years later when the horse skeleton was found with a bullet in it.  Ms. de Braga said a provision should be made to report a killing of a horse. 

 

Mr. Gibbons also asked a question concerning the enforcement of a felony when herding horses off of his property and one horse was killed.  Ms. Dawn Lappin dealt with the problem of horses in Hidden Valley and there was not a problem with the property owner scaring the animal off his property and someone else hitting the horse.  In this case the animals were under the "Estray Law."  The penalty for wounding a horse would be a gross misdemeanor on federal land and on private land it would be a felony.  Mr. Gibbons asked who had the authority to kill a horse.  Ms. Lappin stated on federal land it would be the Bureau of Land Managements' authorized officer and on private land there was no authorized personnel.  Mr. Gibbons asked Senator Titus how she felt about the killing of a lion, big horn sheep or an elk versus a wild horse.  Senator Titus said big horn sheep and elk were typically hunted and it would be a gross misdemeanor to kill one out of season.  It has not been a problem of finding lions killed without reason as it has been with the wild horse. Mr. Gibbons also referred to the bear problem which has existed with the drought and the threat to public safety.  Senator Titus replied she would be glad to amend bears into the bill. 

 

Ms. Smith felt Mr. Gibbons questions would be answered by the words "intentionally kills" as stated in the bill.  Other questions were asked of Senator Titus regarding the unintentional killing of a wild horse. 

 

Ms. Dawn Lappin, member Wild Horse Commission, had come before the legislature many times not to put people in prison for killing horses but to encourage law enforcement to investigate. Ms. Lappin gave an example of a wild horse who had stepped off BLM Land and was not anyone's problem.  The animal was very ill and had a foal, she and her husband captured the horse and foal, called the Department of Agriculture, called a vet, and was told poisoning was suspected.  Ms. Lappin felt the people who did this wanted the foal.  She had tried to get someone to investigate but there was a higher priority.  There were dozens of problems to be investigated over the years which had not been handled.  Ms. Lappin said "the value of the animal is in the worth of the people," and asked for support of S.B. 378. 

 

Mrs. Freeman asked what has happened on the federal and state level regarding managing and controlling the herds.  Ms. Lappin replied for the first time there has been a strategic plan developed by the State BLM which has received national support.  Every three years one-third of the state of Nevada would be evaluated and those animals if determined in excess would be removed.  It would take six to nine years for the whole state of Nevada to be under some type of appropriate management level.  She felt this past year would show a 15 to 20 percent death loss for the wild horse in significant areas of Nevada, Ely, Gerlach, etc. due to the drought and then the heavy winter.  Mrs. Freeman asked what part of the state BLM would be starting to evaluate.  Ms. Lappin said BLM had completed an evaluation of the Northern part of the state.  She assumed the Nellis area would be brought down to an appropriate management level this September. 

 

Mr. Carpenter reiterated what Ms. Lappin had said regarding not wanting anyone to go to prison but would like to see law enforcement pursue problems.  Mr. Carpenter referred to the amount of money spent on the investigation several years ago on horses found shot in the Eastern part of Nevada.  He said the helicopter time alone on the investigation would bring the cost beyond $100,000.  The cost to prosecute the cowboy accused of shooting the wild horses and the cost to defend himself was enormous.  Mr. Carpenter said he did not agree with the theory cases were not being investigated.  Ms. Lappin said she was not talking about federal law but state law.  She would like to have a local sheriff come to the site and investigate shootings.  Mr. Carpenter asked if she wanted the local sheriff to take over the investigations when it was the job of the federal officers to investigate.  He stated if the state took over the management of the wild horse, like fish and game manages other wildlife, he would be glad to make it a felony to kill the wild horse.  Ms. Lappin agreed if the state had had control of the wild horse and a local sheriff had investigated immediately a perpetrator would have been caught. 

 

Mrs. Freeman asked if the state would have the option to take over the management of the herds from the federal government.  Ms. Lappin agreed with Mr. Ernaut, the state would not have the option to regulate wild horses in Nevada. 

 

Ms. de Braga asked about the horses which would be removed by BLM in their strategic plan.  Ms. Lappin stated the horses under five years of age would go for adoption and all of those over five years of age would be put back on the range.  BLM has been trying to remove the younger animals and leave the older animals on the range.  Ms. Lappin said in one area BLM removed 200 horses and put 30 back on the range.

 

Ms. Cathy Barcomb, Executive Director of the State of Nevada Wild Horse Commission, spoke from prepared testimony (Exhibit F). Ms. Barcomb gave an example of a horse in the Virginia Foothill area which was gut shot and died in the backyard of a home.  The police would not come and investigate the shooting of a horse in a neighborhood.  The owner contacted Ms. Lappin and the dispatcher would not send an officer even after she contacted them.  Ms. Lappin called Ms. Barcomb who went to the sheriff's department and asked how they could ignore a felony as the horse was an estray, by evening there were three cars and a  detective investigating the shooting.  When it was a gross misdemeanor the dispatcher would not even send a car, however when it was listed as a felony an investigation took place.  This would be one example of why the Wild Horse Commission was asking for the killing of a wild horse to be under statute of a felony.  A Proclamation (Exhibit G) by the Governor of Nevada had proclaimed June 6 - 13, 1993 as Wild Horse and Burro Week. 

Mr. Carpenter asked how they knew a horse died of natural causes or was shot.  Ms. Barcomb said it was difficult to confirm if a horse was shot or not.  Mr. Carpenter said if 1,000 horses were shot and confirmed, it would take a great deal of investigation.  She said the federal government had been investigating. 

 

Mr. Craig Downer, an Ecologist, spoke from prepared testimony (Exhibit H).

 

Mr. Charles Porchia, a Storey County resident who was involved in a horse roundup in November around Virginia City, spoke in favor of S.B. 378.  He said the Commissioners in Virginia City were going to let mustangers round up the horses and send them to slaughter.  Residents and volunteers headed that off and began rounding up horses with the intention of adopting the horses.  Mr. Porchia was hurt and while recovering the Sheriff took over and sent the horses which were rounded up to slaughter.  He felt there was a lax attitude regarding shooting a wild horse.  Mr. Porchia spoke in support of S.B. 378.

 

Ms. de Braga stated the majority of the horses auctioned for slaughter in Fallon were going for human consumption and being sent to France. 

 

Mrs. Freeman asked for testimony from opponents of S.B. 378.

 

Ms. Stephanie Licht, Nevada Woolgrowers Association, spoke in opposition of S.B. 378.  Ms. Licht related her background with horses and her love for them from the time she was 3 years old.  She talked of riding over Nevada lands on her own horse she had broke and cared for along with her husband's horse.  Her horse she had had for many years passed away and the second horse she had came down with an intestinal tumor and she had to decide whether to let it die naturally or humanely destroy the horse.  The federal law for killing a wild horse would be assessed a fine of not more than $2,000 or imprisonment of not more than one year or both.  The endangered species act would be  a civil penalty of $25,000, $12,000 or $500 for a violation or a criminal penalty of $50,000 or imprisonment of one year or both or $25,000 or imprisonment for not more than six months or both.  Eighty seven percent of Nevada land would be under these federal penalties.  Ms. Licht asked the bill not be made a felony as it would impose a great restriction and would not be a deterrent to those committing the crime.  To equate this crime with a felonious crime would be controversial and difficult. 

 

Mr. Tom Bentz, Nevada Alliance For Responsible Animal Use, opposed S.B. 378, to make killing a wild horse a felony.  He said the groups he represented felt it would be too severe a penalty.  Mr. Bentz emphasized S.B. 378 would make the law stronger than the federal law.  He asked the committee not to make bad legislation if the welfare of the horses were being considered.  The federal government should be petitioned if the penalty needed to be made stronger. Mr. Bentz gave examples of what would be a gross misdemeanor under the proposed legislation. 

 

Mr. Mark McGuire, Nevada Humane Society, strongly supported S.B. 378. The idea behind the increased penalties would address a problem of major proportion as it dealt with malicious intent.  The justification for investigative resources for pursuing these crimes would be available.  The state of Nevada did have a responsibility for caring for the wild horse for the rest of the nation. 

 

Mr. Ned Eyre, private citizen, spoke in opposition to S.B. 378.  He gave an example of a pack horse breaking a leg, having to be destroyed in the mountains, and two years later tracing the killing to him.  He would have to defend himself before emotional types of people. Mr. Eyre felt it would be extremely dangerous to pass a bill through on such an emotional issue.

 

Mr. Joe Dahl opposed S.B. 378, and did not feel it would solve any problems.  The wild horse problem has been an issue for 22 years and he stated a workable solution had not been found.

 

The hearing was closed on S.B. 378.

 

There being no further business to come before committee, the meeting was adjourned at 3:30 p.m.

 

      RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:

 

 

                             

      PAT MENATH

      Committee Secretary

 

 

 

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Assembly Committee on Natural Resources, Agriculture and Mining

June 2, 1993

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