MINUTES OF THE
SENATE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND LABOR
Sixty-seventh Session
June 11, 1993
The Senate Committee on Commerce and Labor was called to order by Chairman Randolph J. Townsend, at 8:30 a.m., on Friday, June 11, 1993, in Room 227 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Meeting Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster.
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:
Senator Randolph J. Townsend, Chairman
Senator Sue Lowden, Vice Chairman
Senator Ann O'Connell
Senator Mike McGinness
Senator Raymond C. Shaffer
Senator Leonard V. Nevin
Senator Lori L. Brown
GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT:
Assemblyman P.M. "Roy" Neighbors, Assembly District 36
Assemblyman Jan Evans, Assembly District 30
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:
Denise Pinnock, Committee Secretary
Brian Davie, Senior Research Analyst
OTHERS PRESENT:
George Flint, Lobbyist, Nevada State Board of Dispensing Opticians
Gary Pomeranz, M.D., Self
Paul Houghland, Jr., Executive Director, Opticians Association of America
David Stuart, Treasurer, Board of Dispensing Opticians, State of Nevada
Greg Hughes, Optician, American Academy of Opticians
Dave Mello, Chairman, Board of Dispensing Opticians, State of Nevada
Ande Engleman, Lobbyist, Nevada Press Association, Inc.
Fred Hillerby, Lobbyist, Nevada Optometric Association
Katrina Van Patten, Optometrist
Janet Carter, Optometrist, Nevada State Board of Optometry
David Guinan, Lobbyist, Nevada Insurance Guaranty Association
Jim Wadhams, Lobbyist, American Insurance Association
James Leonard, Electrician
Frank Grunstead, Member, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Local #401
Herb Stone, Member, National Electrical Contractors Association
Mike Tuxon, Owner, Tuxon Electric
M.K. Yochum, Independent American Party
Willis Shepard, Owner, Willis Electric
Elaine McNeill, Lobbyist, Sierra Nevada Chapter of Associated Builders and Contractors
Pam Miller, Lobbyist, Associated General Contractors
Margi Grein, Lobbyist, Nevada State Contractors Board
Bob Weber, Director, Clark County Building Department
Stan Warren, Lobbyist, Sierra Pacific Power Company
Keith Ashworth, Lobbyist, Nevada Power Company
R. Kent Sweet, Owner, R. Kent Sweet Construction Company
Dennis Long, United Electric Services
Chairman Townsend called the meeting to order. The first order of business was Assembly Bill (A.B.) 586.
ASSEMBLY BILL 586: Revises provision limiting number of hours employee may work in underground mine.
Assemblyman P.M. "Roy" Neighbors, Assembly District 36, explained the bill to the committee and urged passage.
SENATOR O'CONNELL MOVED TO DO PASS A.B. 586.
SENATOR LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR SHAFFER WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
* * * * *
Senator Townsend closed the hearing on A.B. 586 and opened the hearing on Senate Bill (S.B.) 537.
SENATE BILL 537: Authorizes refraction by and adds procedural disciplinary provisions for dispensing opticians.
George Flint, Lobbyist, Nevada State Board of Dispensing Opticians, testified in favor of the bill.
Gary Pomeranz, M.D., Self, stated he has no vested interest in dispensing eyewear, and therefore his testimony is objective. Dr. Pomeranz gave a history of refraction.
Senator Brown said she would feel more comfortable with the bill if opticians were required to provide a written statement informing patients that refraction does not detect disease. Mr. Flint agreed that would be a helpful amendment.
Paul Houghland, Jr., Executive Director, Opticians Association of America, submitted written testimony in support of the bill (Exhibit C).
Senator McGinness asked what the education requirements are to become an optician. Dr. Houghland said the requirements vary from state to state. Nevada requires either an associate degree and passing a national exam, or an apprenticeship program and passing the national exam.
Senator McGinness asked if there are any other states which allow opticians to refract. Dr. Houghland said there are no states that allow independent opticians to refract, but most states allow the practice under the supervision of an optometrist or ophthalmologist.
In response to a question from Senator McGinness, Mr. Flint explained the reason only opticians who own their business will be allowed to refract. He said it is thought to be a way of initially limiting the practice to see how well it worked out. If everything goes as planned the industry intends to expand the practice to all opticians during the next legislative session.
Senator Shaffer pointed out opticians in the military do refractions.
David Stuart, Treasurer, Board of Dispensing Opticians, State of Nevada, stated optical technicians have been doing refractions for years in many capacities. He asserted that an optometrist does not have much more training in refractometry than does an optician. Mr. Stuart stated he does refractions every day. He said, "Because of vertex problems of higher powered lenses, their prescription must be altered on contact lenses, dive masks, and glasses. These changes are usually okayed by the referring doctor, but they are necessary for optimal customer vision."
Greg Hughes, Optician, American Academy of Opticians, spoke in favor of the bill. He described the training program offered for opticians. Mr. Hughes also described the charity work done by the
optometric community.
Assemblyman Jan Evans, Assembly District 30, said a benefit of the bill is that during the training program for the opticians many pairs of glasses would be made for indigent and welfare patients.
Dave Mello, Chairman, Board of Dispensing Opticians, State of Nevada, spoke of the board's goal of doing $100,000 per year of charity work. Mr. Mello told the committee there is no health danger posed by an optician performing a refraction.
Ande Engleman, Lobbyist, Nevada Press Association, Inc., requested language to ensure information regarding complaints would be open to the public.
Fred Hillerby, Lobbyist, Nevada Optometric Association, congratulated the opticians on their willingness to do charity work. He stated he thought the opposing testimony would be very convincing and hoped the opticians would continue with their charity work even if the bill failed.
Katrina Van Patten, Optometrist, submitted written testimony in opposition to the bill (Exhibit D).
Senator Brown asked whether, when someone buys over-the-counter magnification glasses, there is any kind of notice to tell the consumer he should have a regular eye examination. Dr. Van Patten said she thought an individual who went to the grocery store for glasses would be aware they were not getting any kind of an examination.
Mr. Hillerby agreed with Senator Brown's concern that a patient, having obtained corrective lenses from an optician, would not maintain his preventative eye exams with an optometrist.
Senator Shaffer asked if there is any evidence of anyone being seriously injured or going blind from a refraction. Dr. Van Patten said, "From a refraction, no. From a loss of a comprehensive eye examination, yes."
Janet Carter, Optometrist, Nevada State Board of Optometry, stated the Board's opposition to S.B. 537. Ms. Carter expressed surprise that Mr. Stuart would admit to performing refractions since it is currently illegal. She said requiring the optician to ask a series of questions about symptoms which would indicate disease is not good enough. Many diseases can exist in an eye with 20/20 vision. Dr. Carter mentioned the difficulty of doing refractions on children and mentally retarded people without using drugs in the eye. She pointed out that the training programs mentioned by the bill's proponents in which the glasses were donated to charity have nothing to do with refraction.
Mr. Houghland stated:
At the beginning of my testimony I stated that when the smoke blows away it boils down to an economic issue, and that's exactly what this is. The reference that opticians are not licensed in all states is accurate, and the reason that opticians are not licensed in every state is that optometry fights it tooth and nail every time a licensure bill is proposed. Their argument is that it is not a life-threatening issue, therefore there is no need for licensure. Optometry is extremely strong, legislatively....We do not oppose, or in any way want to interfere with regular eye exams.
Senator Townsend closed the hearing on S.B. 537. The next item of business was S.B. 246 which had come back from the assembly amended.
SENATE BILL 246: Revises certain provisions relating to practice of pharmacy and state board of pharmacy.
SENATOR O'CONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY ACTION ON S.B. 246.
SENATOR NEVIN SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
* * * * *
Senator Townsend closed the hearing on S.B. 246 and opened the hearing on S.B. 237.
SENATE BILL 237: Makes various changes relating to insurance guaranty association.
David Guinan, Lobbyist, Nevada Insurance Guaranty Association, stated the requested amendment had been drafted, but not printed as yet.
Senator Brown asked if all the parties involved had agreed to the change.
Jim Wadhams, Lobbyist, American Insurance Association, said he had seen the proposed amendment but understood there were going to be more revisions suggested.
Senator Townsend asked that interested parties communicate because the committee would be acting on the bill soon. The hearing on S.B. 237 was closed and the hearing on A.B. 235 opened.
ASSEMBLY BILL 235: Establishes and revises various fines and penalties.
Senator Townsend proposed an amendment which would state all boards which incur a financial liability on behalf of their licensees, that is not covered by their budget, must assess their licensees to cover that.
Senator Townsend asked Brian Davie, Senior Research Analyst, to ask the Legal Division whether it would work to place all money from penalties and fines into an escrow account. The money could be utilized from there.
Senator Townsend closed the hearing on A.B. 235 and opened the hearing on S.B. 203 and S.B. 215.
SENATE BILL 203: Clarifies circumstances when compensation by physical therapist for referral of patient is ground for disciplinary action.
SENATE BILL 215: Eliminates certain deduction from gross revenue used to determine franchise fee for community antenna television company.
Senator Townsend pointed out S.B. 203 is a carbon copy of a bill already before the committee. He said S.B. 215 is a bill which the involved parties have not been able to reach agreement on.
SENATOR O'CONNELL MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE S.B. 203 AND S.B. 215.
SENATOR LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR SHAFFER WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
* * * * *
Senator Townsend closed the hearing on S.B. 203 and S.B. 215 , and opened the hearing on S.B. 530.
SENATE BILL 530: Creates separate licensing board for electricians.
James Leonard, Electrician, testified in support of the bill. He asserted that in the interest of public safety, testing and licensing are necessary.
Senator O'Connell questioned whether Mr. Leonard had considered aligning the electricians with another profession's board. Mr. Leonard replied he had not, but felt they should not be aligned with the Contractor's Board.
Senator Shaffer challenged the definition of licensed electrician in the bill. Mr. Leonard agreed the definition did not spell out every detail of an electrician's expected range of knowledge.
Senator O'Connell pointed out there should be a budget attached to the bill. Mr. Leonard agreed to provide one, and said the board should become self-supportive in a short time. Senator O'Connell outlined several other factors which need to be included in the bill before it is processed.
Frank Grunstead, Member, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Local #401, asserted passage of the bill would be a very positive step for the consumers of Nevada.
Senator Lowden ascertained that the current testing and licensing is not reciprocal from county to county.
Herb Stone, Member, National Electrical Contractors Association, testified in support of the bill.
Senator Shaffer asked whether the primary goal of the board would be to protect the public or the board. Mr. Stone replied they are interested in protecting everyone.
Senator Shaffer questioned the lack of a member of the public on the proposed board. Mr. Leonard said they would have no problem adding a member of the public to the board. Senator O'Connell explained it is a requirement of law.
Mike Tuxon, Owner, Tuxon Electric, informed the committee of the responsibility held by the electrical contractor on a job. Mr. Tuxon said testing and licensing would in no way guarantee only good electricians would be on the job. It would only guarantee good test takers. He urged the committee to defeat the bill.
M.K. Yochum, Independent American Party, expressed his belief that the author of the bill had only the best motives, but questioned the motives of the union supporters. He opposed the bill for many reasons including expense to the public, "added bureaucratic tyranny," and "increased opportunity for political payoffs and cronyism." Mr. Yochum asserted the bill would make it illegal for a homeowner to install a new outlet in his home. He suggested the following amendment: Provisions of this chapter that infringe upon or tend to abridge or nullify any person's natural right, when claimed, to pursue or engage in his or her chosen trade or profession are not withstanding.
Willis Shepard, Owner, Willis Electric, said he believes the bill to be vague, slanted, and inflationary.
Elaine McNeill, Lobbyist, Sierra Nevada Chapter of Associated Builders and Contractors, stated her organization's opposition to the bill. Ms. McNeill agreed the bill is vague and pointed out the section on moral turpitude would have the legislature legislating morality.
Pam Miller, Lobbyist, Associated General Contractors, said her organization is opposed to S.B. 530 because they do not think there is a demonstrated need, it creates another layer of bureaucracy, and all the other specialty trades would follow the example.
Margi Grein, Lobbyist, Nevada State Contractors Board, stated the board has not taken a position as yet because of the short notice. She wondered why, if consumer protection is the reason for the bill, out of 3,500 complaints received by the board last year only 20 involved electrical contractors. Ms. Grein offered to supply the subcommittee with national data on licensing procedures.
Bob Weber, Director, Clark County Building Department, also questioned the need for a new board.
Stan Warren, Lobbyist, Sierra Pacific Power Company, was present to oppose the bill. He submitted written testimony from Jim Bengochea, Construction Division, Sierra Pacific Power Company (Exhibit E).
Keith Ashworth, Lobbyist, Nevada Power Company, concurred with Mr. Warren. He stated Nevada Power Company has an extensive program for their electricians already in place.
R. Kent Sweet, Owner, R. Kent Sweet Construction Company, expressed his opposition to S.B. 530. He said additional boards tend to confuse local government because the government agencies do not understand the rules and regulations of the various boards.
Dennis Long, United Electric Services, pointed out he is the responsible party for the work his company performs. He said he should be the one to decide which of his employees is competent to perform a specific task.
Senator Townsend announced the bill will be heard in subcommittee and closed the hearing on S.B. 530. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 11:00 a.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
Denise Pinnock,
Committee Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Senator Randolph J. Townsend, Chairman
DATE:
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Senate Committee on Commerce and Labor
June 11, 1993
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