MINUTES OF THE
SENATE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES AND FACILITIES
Sixty-seventh Session
March 15, 1993
The Senate Committee on Human Resources and Facilities was called to order by Chairman Raymond D. Rawson, at 1:30 p.m., on Monday, March 15, 1993, in Room 226 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Meeting Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster.
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:
Senator Raymond D. Rawson, Chairman
Senator Randolph J. Townsend
Senator Joseph M. Neal, Jr.
Senator Bob Coffin
Senator Diana M. Glomb
Senator Lori L. Brown
COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT:
Senator William R. O'Donnell, Vice Chairman (Excused)
GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT:
Senator R. Hal Smith, Senate District 1
Assemblymen James A. Gibbons, Washoe County District 25
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:
Judy Alexander, Committee Secretary
Susan Henson, Committee Secretary
Caren Jenkins, Research Analyst
Pepper Sturm, Research Analyst
OTHERS PRESENT:
Randy Day, Commissioner, Veteran Affairs, State of Nevada
Richard Bowen, President, Coast Financial Development Corporation
Dr. Greg Betts, Lobbyist, Nevada Rural School District
Dr. Mark Hurtubise, President, Sierra Nevada College
Mary Peterson, Deputy Superintendent of Public Instruction, Nevada Department of Education
Carolyn Edwards, Lobbyist, Clark County School District
Chuck Gaw, Investigative Services Director, Washoe County School District
Debbie Cahill, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association
Don Johnson, Chairman, Veterans' Advisory Commission
Chairman Rawson opened the hearing on Senate Bill (S.B.) 96.
SENATE BILL 96: Requires Nevada commissioner for veteran affairs to take actions that are necessary to establish veterans' homes and authorizes employment of coordinator to carry out this duty.
Senator R. Hal Smith, Clark Senate District Number 1, testified in support of S.B. 96 as referenced in his summary (Exhibit C).
Caren Jenkins, Senior Research Analyst, Legislative Counsel Bureau's Research Division, presented a memorandum (Exhibit D) from Pamela Wilcox, Administrator, Division of State Lands, that suggested an amendment for S.B. 96. This amendment would make any donations of property to this fund for the veterans' homes, go through the Division of Lands. She advised this amendment was acceptable to certain members of the interim study committee.
Randy Day, Commissioner, Veterans Affairs, State of Nevada, introduced Mr. Richard Bowen, President, Coast Financial Development Corporation of Los Alamitos, California, who spoke for the Veterans Association and provided a letter of introduction and list of his credentials (EXHIBIT E).
Chairman Rawson asked is this long-term care for veterans or a low-income housing unit. Mr. Day responded, this would be a long-term care center, but a small number of those beds would be used for a alcohol and drug abuse treatment program. Mr. Bowen added, that in the home, there would be 48.2 percent independent living veterans and/or veterans with their spouses. Treatment programs such as alcohol and drug abuse would make up 10 percent, with intermediate care and skilled nursing each making up 20 percent. He informed the committee, that on a national basis, there is a projection that the veteran age population will peak in the year 2010 and peak again around the year 2020.
Mr. Bowen advised, it had been discovered, that locating the veterans homes in various locations, opposed to one large home per state, allows the family to visit the veteran, if it is within 75 miles. He added California has a cost of $30,800,000 for a 400 bed campus and has a six campus planning program. Sixty five percent of the cost would come from federal funding and 35 percent from the state. The homes and campuses are not only for the elderly to reside there, but would also provide respite care and a day care center. He pointed out the $12,800,000 per year cost to run a 400 bed home would be spent locally. This would provide employment for 250 people and the veterans themselves would have a spending income of around $400 each per month.
Senator Glomb asked, is legislation needed in order to proceed with setting up this program. Mr. Day responded yes, at this point the funding is only needed for hiring of the additional staff.
Senator Glomb asked how many veterans are there in Nevada. Mr. Bowen responded there are 200,000 in Nevada.
Mr. Day referenced the feasibility study (Exhibit F), and advised that Caren Jenkins extrapolated figures based on population and research with convalescent homes, and found that the Clark County area needed 58 beds immediately, just for skilled nursing. He further advised, through studies in Idaho, it has been discovered that 66 beds was the optimal number of beds for the best cost effectiveness, in operating expenses and labor. (EXHIBIT F. Original is on file in the Research Library.)
Mr. Day recommended the use of the wagon wheel concept, used in Idaho, which has a central supply, nurses station, dietary, etc. for the rooms and facilities. He stated this design can be used with just the hub and several spokes in the beginning and easily added to as needed.
Chairman Rawson noted, that legislation, passed a bill two sessions ago, which would allow the University System of Nevada to accept and form a business relationship with a private entity to build a teaching nursing home. He asked, would it be detrimental to put this on a campus and list this as a teaching home? Mr. Day responded, he thought this would be an outstanding idea. Mr. Bowen stated the University of California, Irvine, is preparing a proposal to do this on their campus. The San Diego Veterans Hospital is now doing a long range study on geriatrics, because of the aging veteran population.
Chairman Rawson asked, do you see veterans who are capable of being in independent living, interacting and helping with those that are more handicapped or less able to function? Mr. Day responded yes, that is happening around the country and some veterans even receive the minimum wage for their service.
Chairman Rawson asked, in matching the funds, is there any money for ongoing expenses or just for construction? Mr. Bowen responded, the expenses are ongoing, and would be $25 to $26 for skilled nursing per day and around $10 to $11 per day for independent living. The veteran himself must apply approximately 50 percent of his income towards his cost of care.
Mr. Day addressed the question about locating a home on a campus, and advised that studies show the ideal location is on a campus or near a veterans' association medical center, because they could take advantage of the nursing programs, the internships, and cooperative agreements with the pharmacies and various departments within the hospitals.
Chairman Rawson asked, would it be appropriate use of the 2 years, to go into a planning session this year and work out all of the details. He added that a site plan from an architectural firm would be needed, as well as the organizational plan for running it. Mr. Day agreed that would be the way to go and that the California task force was comprised of a group of professional people from various schools.
Senator Neal asked, what is the advantage to have this fund created within the state treasurer's office, since you are not asking for an appropriation. Mr. Day responded, there is another bill S.B. 186 being introduced that would put $200,000 of General Fund money into the fund.
SENATE BILL 186: Creates fund for veterans' homes and make appropriation to fund.
Mr. Day advised, there is a bill with a legislative committee on taxation, that would allow the veteran to waive their exemption on either personal or real property and have it go into that fund. There is one other bill being drafted that would create a special license plate for all Nevada veterans. The $25 fee would go into this fund. Also, S.B. 99 would open up a statewide lottery for veterans' organizations, to be run annually.
SENATE BILL 99: Authorizes operation by veterans' organizations of annual statewide lottery to obtain money for veterans' homes.
Chairman Rawson advised the statewide lottery is a touchy issue which was treated as a new tax by the legislature before, and is not an easy issue with which to deal. Mr. Day explained, the lottery would be taken on strictly as a nonprofit venture. The money accumulated from the bills would go to the funds needed to meet their portion of the 35 percent. He advised S.B. 96 would start the federal process, which is very lengthy, and would require a lot of studies.
Chairman Rawson asked how long does the federal government usually spend in making decisions. Mr. Day responded, it may take several years. Mr. Bowen advised, California made their application the first part of 1992 and sent in the final application on July 1st, 1992. The application was signed by both houses and the governor in about 4 days. It was approved and the money has been set aside. More detailed information is required before this will be funded, in approximately 9 months.
Chairman Rawson asked, if the location of the home would be in southern or northern Nevada, or one home in each location. Mr. Day stated the state warrants two homes, if funding is available, one in Washoe County and one in Clark County, which would be the more immediate need.
Mr. Bowen suggested, that there is also a lease-back type program. Various entrepreneurs would buy the ground, build the home and operate it for Nevada, or the state can operate it for about the same amount of money and the per diem per day for each patient.
Chairman Rawson asked, if the state were to put up $3 to $5 million dollars worth of land, would this reflect as part of the states $10 million responsibility? Mr. Bowen answered no, the land is not part of the state's percent and that is why they are looking for donations for the land from local communities.
Senator Glomb asked, what is the $10 million dollar responsibility. Chairman Rawson explained, that is part of the state's approximate $30 million needed to build a 400 bed facility, which would come from donations, appropriations, earmarked funds like a lottery, etc. Mr. Day advised Chairman Rawson that he felt the $30 million figure is a high estimate.
Chairman Rawson stated, at the present time, the state provides $79 per day in a long-term care per bed. The federal government would provide $25 to $26 per day of this cost and the remainder would come from the veteran and state appropriations.
Senator Brown asked, is that amount money in the budget now? Mr. Day responded, no.
Senator Coffin asked what kind of veteran would be eligible for residency, in this kind of domicile. Mr. Day responded, that most states would restrict eligibility to wartime veterans, because the federal government would offer more benefits for wartime veterans. The eligible veteran would range between the ages of 62 to 72, and would not be able to care for himself. He advised, it is best to have a board of trustees to run the home, to decide the mix and review the applications are received. Senator Coffin emphasized, it is important to clearly define, in the statute, what kind of person would be eligible, because a lot of money is involved.
Chairman Rawson advised, it looks very feasible to put this together and to go full bore and try to accomplish it. He asked Mr. Bowen for diagrams, pictures and outlines from the program in California, that the committee could access. Mr. Bowen stated he would give Chairman Rawson material, including proposals from 20 to 30 cities, their own study designating what a veteran is on the various levels of care, along with the state grant program with the federal government book. Chairman Rawson stated, he would like to see the committee take an interest in this and press it forward.
Mr. Dan Johnson, Chairman, Veterans' Advisory Commission to the Governor, who is also past Department Commander of the Disabled American Veterans, advised the commission has been working for veteran's homes in the State of Nevada for 3 years. He asked for support on S.B. 96.
Chairman Rawson closed the hearing on S.B. 96.
Chairman Rawson asked the committee, if they would like to process this bill with the modifications, if they were going to add some of these ideas. He advised, the amendments he felt necessary are: the state lands amendment; to direct the executive branch that is paying out funds now in long-term care for veterans, to consolidate that so it could be used in this program; and either direct the medical school or community colleges to begin working on the concept of the teaching nursing veterans' home; define site improvements in architectural planning for the modules; and to direct the commissioner to develop the organizational plan for this. He advised, then the state would have a 2-year period to put everything in place for the final funding. The legislature could authorize the receipt of gifts, grants, donations. The state could authorize the specialized license plate, which at the present time is a separate bill. The state could authorize the waiving of property tax. He advised, "I would not put the lottery in this bill, because it may jeopardize this bill and that could be processed independently." He added, they could earmark, marking some bonding money for the state share, but not authorizing the sale of the bonds. He noted the Finance Committee would want to weigh this.
SENATOR TOWNSEND MOVED TO AMEND S.B. 96 WITH THOSE PARTICULAR AMENDMENTS AND DO PASS, BRING IT BACK TO COMMITTEE FOR REVIEW AND REREFER TO FINANCE.
SENATOR BROWN SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR COFFIN AND SENATOR O'DONNELL WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
* * * * *
Chairman Rawson opened the hearing on S.B. 218.
SENATE BILL 218: Authorizes school districts to enter into agreements with certain postsecondary educational institutions to assign students of such institutions to certain training positions in public schools.
Assemblyman James Gibbons, Washoe County District #25, testified in support of S.B. 218. He introduced the bill by saying the idea and concept came about because Sierra Nevada Community College at Incline Village had a problem with entering into agreements with the local school district, to provide students for student teaching. This bill enables credited, post-education institutions to enter into agreements with school districts for that purpose.
Chairman Rawson asked, what is the impact and is there any opposition or downside of this bill.
Mr. Gibbons stated, there is no impact that he can tell. It would expand the scope of the current law, which was restricted to the University of Nevada System.
Dr. Greg Betts, Lobbyist, representing the Rural School Districts of Nevada, testified in support of S.B. 218. He advised they would encourage this legislation.
Dr. Mark Hurtubise, President, Sierra Nevada College (SNC) of Incline Village stated SNC is the only 4-year private accredited college in Nevada and that they started the teacher certification program in 1989.
Chairman Rawson asked Dr. Hurtubise, if this legislation would allow just SNC to enter into those agreements. Dr. Hurtubise advised S.B. 218 would allow this for all accredited colleges in Nevada. He pointed out Jim Gibbons received a letter from Frankie Sue Del Papa, Attorney General, State of Nevada, which stated "I agree with you that the statutory language of this particular code section needs to be amended." He stated, with the population increase, there is a need within Nevada for school teachers. Since Sierra Nevada College is a private school, Nevada taxpayers save money, because the teachers they are training are not supported by taxes.
Dr. Hurtubise advised, the checks and balance exist at three levels: the licensing procedure from the State of Nevada; the regional accreditation; and also school districts. He presented a letter dated August 9, 1989, (EXHIBIT G) from Dr. Joe Crowley, President, University of Nevada, Reno, that addressed the need for additional teachers within Nevada.
Mary Peterson, Deputy Superintendent of Public Instruction, Nevada Department of Education, testified in support of S.B. 218, as referenced in her summary (EXHIBIT H). She added that community colleges typically only give 2-year degrees, therefore those students would not be affected by bill. University of Nevada, Las Vegas, (UNLV) has worked with the other student teaching institutions in southern Nevada, as well as out-of-state institutions, such as the University of Southern Utah and these institutions have placed their student teachers through UNLV.
Carolyn Edwards, Lobbyist, Clark County School District, strongly urged support on S.B. 218.
Chairman Rawson closed the hearing on S.B. 218.
SENATOR GLOMB MOVE TO DO PASS S.B. 218.
SENATOR TOWNSEND SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR BROWN AND SENATOR O'DONNELL WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
* * * * *
Chairman Rawson opened the hearing on Assembly Bill (A.B.) 75.
ASSEMBLY BILL 75:Enhances penalty for certain crimes committed on school property if dangerous weapon is possessed during commission of crime.
Mr. Chuck Gaw, Investigative Services Director, Washoe County School District, testified in support of A.B. 75 as referenced in his letter (EXHIBIT I).
Chairman Rawson asked for a clarification of the difference between existing law and A.B. 75. Mr. Gaw stated that NEVADA REVISED STATUTES (NRS) 202.265 deals with specific weapons as does NRS 202.350 which is the concealed weapon statute. The type of weapons indicated in the letter do not fall into that category and school officials are addressing the non-student element that comes on the school grounds. The schools have ample administrative discipline for the student, it is the non-students they are referring to, that have created this problem. A hunting-knife strapped on the belt, in full view is not in violation of the existing law and this situation has come up at a school.
Senator Glomb asked for clarification that this refers only to non-students. Mr. Gaw responded yes, and the presence on campus with a weapon would constitute a gross misdemeanor.
Senator Neal asked what caused the school district to formulate this bill that will create a misdemeanor by merely having a weapon. Mr. Gaw advised, the presence of non-students, on or adjacent to the campus, in possession of weapons, creating a dangerous situation, is the reason this was developed. Mr. Gaw showed the committee a very large bowie knife in a leather sheath that had been strapped on a non-student on campus and he advised, this is not in violation of our current law. School officials were not able to charge the person for possession of the knife, only for trespassing and loitering, on and around the school property. He further advised, this knife, although legal, because it was not concealed, was just as dangerous as a pocket knife or switch blade which would be illegal because it would be concealed.
Mr. Gaw advised A.B. 75 was endorsed by Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, Reno Police Department, Washoe County Sheriff's Department, Carson City Sheriff's Department, the Clark County Legislative Representative and the State of Nevada Teachers Association.
Senator Neal asked, is the solution school officials are looking for, that they can put the person in jail. Mr. Gaw responded, the purpose is to be able to lawfully remove them from the scene and have them brought into the justice system. The investigative service officers are there to provide a safe environment for teaching and learning to take place.
Senator Brown questioned if there is a law against an employee of the school district bringing a weapon on campus? Mr. Gaw responded yes, NRS 202.264 makes it a gross misdemeanor to have a dangerous weapon on school property. NRS 202.350 deals with concealed weapons, but neither statute covers the area needing change.
Debbie Cahill, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association, testified in favor of A.B. 75 as amended. She stressed their concern is to make the campuses a safe place.
Carolyn Edwards, Lobbyist, Clark County School District, urged support for A.B. 75. She advised, there have been problems in Clark County, with members of the public bothering the campuses, loitering and bringing on weapons, especially at the elementary schools. She added, that many of the Clark County schools are attached to parks.
Senator Neal stated, he did not think the legislature could continue to pass legislation of a reaction nature, without trying to look at the reason behind this legislation, and try to direct some effort towards preventing the situation before it becomes a problem. He asked if he could put the blame on teachers since they spend a great deal of time with the child at an early age.
Ms. Cahill responded, kindergarten and 1st grade teachers will tell legislators the child has already had the imprint of society from their parents, and even at that point, the teacher cannot address the problem. She added there are several pieces of legislation that are coming forward in this session of the legislature to begin to address some of these causes.
Chairman Rawson closed the hearing on A.B. 75.
SENATOR TOWNSEND MOVED TO DO PASS A.B. 75.
SENATOR GLOMB SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR COFFIN AND SENATOR O'DONNELL WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
* * * * *
There being no further business, Chairman Rawson adjourned the meeting at 3:10 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
Judy Alexander,
Committee Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Senator Raymond D. Rawson, Chairman
DATE:
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Senate Committee on Human Resources and Facilities
March 15, 1993
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