MINUTES OF THE
SENATE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES AND FACILITIES
Sixty-seventh Session
April 12, 1993
The Senate Committee on Human Resources and Facilities was called to order by Chairman Raymond D. Rawson, at 2:05 p.m., on Monday, April 12, 1993, in Room 226 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Meeting Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster.
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:
Senator Raymond D. Rawson, Chairman
Senator William R. O'Donnell, Vice Chairman
Senator Randolph J. Townsend
Senator Joseph M. Neal, Jr.
Senator Bob Coffin
Senator Diana M. Glomb
Senator Lori L. Brown
GUEST LEGISLATORS:
Assemblywoman Stephanie Smith, District 20
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:
Judy Alexander, Committee Secretary
Pepper Sturm, Research Analyst
OTHERS PRESENT:
Lindsey Jydstrup, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association
Dr. Eugene T. Paslov, Superintendent of Public Instruction, Department of Education, State of Nevada
Henry Etchemendy, Executive Director, Nevada Association of School Boards
Carolyne Edwards, Lobbyist, Clark County School District
Debbie Cahill, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association
Mary Peterson, Deputy Superintendent, Department of Education, State of Nevada
Bobbie Gang, Lobbyist, Nevada Women's Lobby, American Association of University Women
Sherri Lakin, Parent
Lynn Chapman, Parent
Sheila Ward, Nevada Eagle Forum
Chairman Rawson opened the meeting and presented to the committee a bill draft request (BDR).
BILL DRAFT REQUEST 34-1897: Makes various changes concerning surety bonds required of private postsecondary educational institutions.
SENATOR BROWN MOVED FOR COMMITTEE INTRODUCTION OF BDR 34-1897.
SENATOR TOWNSEND SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR O'DONNELL AND SENATOR COFFIN WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
Chairman Rawson read Assembly Amendment 211 to Senate Bill (S.B.) 47.
SENATE BILL 47: Requires schools to conduct drills to instruct pupils on procedures in event of chemical explosion or other related emergency.
Chairman Rawson explained, that on page 1, line 11 of the amendment, the word "chief" was deleted and replaced with "Person designated for this purpose by the board of trustees of the school district; and".
SENATOR TOWNSEND MOVED TO CONCUR WITH ASSEMBLY AMENDMENT 211.
SENATOR GLOMB SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR O'DONNELL AND SENATOR COFFIN WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
* * * * *
Chairman Rawson opened the hearing on S.B. 313.
SENATE BILL 313: Provides for binding arbitration for suspension or revocation of licenses of certain educational personnel by state board of education.
Lindsey Jydstrup, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association (NSEA) explained that NSEA introduced S.B. 313 to strengthen the statute that governs the procedures of suspension or revocation of a teachers license to teach. She explained, once a teacher's license is revoked, for all practical purposes, it is the end of that persons career. The NSEA is working on amended language for S.B. 313, with the State Board of Education and other education groups to do this in a manner that would be workable and acceptable to both NSEA and the other groups involved in the suspension and revocation process. She asked Chairman Rawson to allow NSEA to work on amended language and bring the amended language back to the committee for further action.
Chairman Rawson advised, There are no objections to people or groups that are communicating, so that will be allowed.
Dr. Eugene T. Paslov, Superintendent of Public Instruction, Department of Education, State of Nevada, advised the committee, the Department of Education is committed to working with NSEA and others as well as the school board's association, to try to find acceptable language on this bill.
Chairman Rawson advised, that the committee would be interested, if it is a proceeding where there is a teacher that needs to be suspended, disciplined or removed. He expounded, be sure to allow that and protect the teacher's rights and livelihood.
Henry Etchemendy, Executive Director, Nevada Association of School Boards (NASB) advised the committee, NASB joins in the request to allow them time to work on amendments.
Senator Neal asked, who would provide the list for the hearing officer. Dr. Paslov advised that is the responsibility of the state superintendent, to provide the list and there is a selection process, with the state superintendent making the first call, according to the bill, and would go through a final selection process.
Ms. Jydstrup advised, the list would be with the American Arbitration Association.
Chairman Rawson closed the hearing on S.B. 313 and stated this bill will be reserved for a future work session.
Chairman Rawson advised the committee, while they were waiting for Assemblywoman Smith, to look at Senate Concurrent Resolution (S.C.R.) 11.
SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 11: Urges Board of Regents of University of Nevada System to develop and adopt alternative methods for receiving master's degree which accommodate problems facing persons who are blind or deaf or suffer from other physical or learning disabilities.
SENATOR TOWNSEND MOVED TO ADOPT S.C.R. 11.
SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR COFFIN WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
Chairman Rawson opened the hearing on Assembly Bill (A.B.) 154.
ASSEMBLY BILL 154: Revises requirements for equipment that must be installed on school buses.
Assemblywoman Stephanie Smith, District 20, explained to the committee, the circumstances that brought about this bill. She said, that recently, in Moapa Valley, a little girl named Brandy Bundy was run over by her own school bus. The reason was because she crossed in front of the bus too closely and was not able to be seen by the bus driver. She advised, there is equipment that is being put on the majority of buses in Clark County, which is an additional swing arm on the front of the bus, to prevent a child from crossing so close in front of the bus, that the driver cannot see the child. She explained, it is not to be confused with the swing arm on the side of the bus, that stops traffic from coming around. She stated, the cost is $68.12 per swing arm, which would come out of the education's transportation fund and added, that the cost is insignificant compared to the cost of a life.
In response to a question from Senator Glomb, Dr. Paslov explained, the cost of this particular mechanism would be included in the reimbursement transportation cost, which is part of the distributed school account. It is a reimbursable cost, that the district would submit the cost and in the next biennium, 2 years later, that cost would be reimbursed. He clarified, the swing arm has been purchased in Clark County, but not throughout the rest of the state. It would be imperative, for this legislation to install a similar mechanism throughout the state on school buses.
Chairman Rawson asked, has there been an analysis of this or documentation that indicates it is actually effective. Dr. Paslov did not know of an analysis, but advised, it had been recommended by the Clark County School District's transportation officials to prevent another tragedy. The State Department of Education transportation specialists have provided an analysis of other kinds of devices. He stated that the transportation director suggested, the district needs to do more training of the bus drivers, to prevent accidents of that sort. He stated, the swing-arm is at least a step in the right direction, at a fairly modest cost.
Senator O'Donnell asked, what would be the time line for compliance. Dr. Paslov answered, as soon as it becomes law.
Senator Neal asked, would you then by regulation be able to establish a time line, for all of the buses within the state, to have a swing- arm installed. Dr. Paslov explained, they could do that, if it were necessary, but it is his understanding, there is no opposition.
Senator Townsend noted, the underlying problem that Assemblywoman Smith had articulated, dealt with bigger issues than swing-arms. He asked, why are buses being ordered that were designed 50 years ago. Dr. Paslov responded, it is his understanding that new buses do have safety features on them. He advised the committee, the district has some buses that are quite old. The other point he made is that the tragedy had nothing to do specifically with the construction of a bus. It had to do with the inability of the bus driver to see the child walking in front of the bus.
Senator Townsend disagreed with Dr. Paslov, and said that it was a fundamental problem with the safety design. He stressed, buses that are used in a public system today, are designed specifically, so the bus driver may see any pedestrian, at any time. He asked, could the bus safety expert bring in photos, specifics on the type and design, measurements and statistics involved in the buses, if the committee revisits this issue.
Senator Brown referred to wording in the bill and asked, why is this at the expense of the school district or operator, are there independent operators who would have to pay for their own safety devices. Assemblywomen Smith responded, that was how bill drafting wrote it.
Senator Neal asked why not equip the bus with a mirror, rather than a arm, since the problem in the tragedy was that the driver could not see the child. He noted that a child may or may not go around the arm, but may step over it or go under it. Assemblywoman Smith explained, that this safety device would encourage children to walk far enough in front, would set the path for the children, that they must come out a certain distance from the bus.
Senator Neal replied, the bill is putting orders on the child rather than the driver, to be able to see the child. Assemblywoman Smith advised, she reviewed many catalogs with safety devices and that this device seemed to address the need in the most simplistic form.
Senator Neal stressed, in his opinion, it would be more important to equip the driver with some type of vision device where the driver could see, rather than install a swing arm, which a child could go over or under it.
Senator Townsend asked Assemblywoman Smith, would she object, if the language were permissive to allow either the districts or the state department to work with this. He explained, that this bill states a specific device would be bought, as opposed to addressing the problem. He stated, he did not want to preclude the bus safety experts from having that alternative. Assemblywoman Smith responded her only concern is for the safety of the children, so she did not have a problem with that. She stressed, her concern is that it would be mandated.
Senator Townsend brought to Assemblywoman Smith's attention, that there are several bus designs and that the buses with the flat front may not have the same visibility problem as the others. The other buses would be required to have something to prevent that lack of visibility problem.
Dr. Paslov concurred with Senator Townsend, and stated that it would be informative for the committee to hear from people who are knowledgeable about the specific equipment that is available in the state's school districts, and then take action that will maximize the safety for the youngsters in a policy consideration.
Carolyne Edwards, Lobbyist, Clark County School District (CCSD) gave an explanation why the CCSD supports this bill. She explained, they immediately installed this swing arm device on all of the school buses, in reaction to the tragedy that had happened in their district.
Ms. Edwards explained, the Parent Teachers Association, Teachers Association, and the rural districts, make up a coalition that meets once a week to look at issues affecting all schools in Nevada. The coalition supports this bill.
Debbie Cahill, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association stated they are in support of this bill and are very sensitive to the comments that have been made today. She explained, they are in favor of anything that will make the bus driver's job easier. They would be willing to take another look at this and work on some amendments.
Senator O'Donnell asked Ms. Cahill would you have any problem with the concept of not codifying the specific language of an arm. Ms. Cahill stated the NSEA are great proponents of local control and through their associations on the local level, would be willing to work with the district to see to it that these safety improvements are made at that level.
Senator O'Donnell asked Ms. Edwards would she have any problem with that. Ms. Edwards responded, no, as long as the momentum is not stopped. At this point this legislation makes the state of Nevada uniform with this device, which seems to be the best at the moment.
Mr. Etchemendy, representing NASB, stated they support the bill as it is and if it can be improved with the suggestions that Senator Townsend and Senator Neal have made, then NASB would be in support.
Assemblywoman Smith responded to a question from Senator Coffin and stated, the swing-arm comes out automatically.
Vice Chairman O'Donnell closed the hearing on A.B. 154.
Vice Chairman O'Donnell opened the hearing on Assembly Concurrent Resolution (A.C.R.) 16.
ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 16: Supports national educational goals for State of Nevada.
Mr. Pepper Sturm, Research Analyst, Legislative Counsel Bureau, spoke from a summary (EXHIBIT C). He spoke at the request of Wendell Williams and stated that he did not speak in support of or in opposition to any measure, but simply advised the committee of the origin and intent of the legislation.
Vice Chairman O'Donnell noted on line 16, the students in the state would be ranked in the top 10 percent of the nation in mathematics and science achievement, with the fact that the state has been steeped in science and engineering for many years. He asked Mr. Sturm, is there a movement or is there a direction that teachers or administration is taking in satisfying this goal. Mr. Sturm stated it is his understanding that the State Board of Education is adopting the course of study for mathematics and a number of other plans designed to improve mathematics in the state of Nevada. There is a separate resolution that lends legislative support to that particular effort.
Senator Coffin asked Mr. Sturm, did the interim committee adopt this exactly as it is or did this get changed in the drafting. Mr. Sturm responded, as noted in his statement, this particular item was one of the attachments presented by the Boulder City Parents Advisory Resource Committee. Senator Coffin asked Mr. Sturm, do you know where the other A.C.R. 16 resolutions and bills are setting right now. Mr. Sturm responded, there are two others in this committee that are up for work session, one or two others have been heard, and the remainder have not been scheduled for a hearing yet. Senator Coffin asked, was this resolution passed calling for the money to be appropriated for the achievement of all of these goals. Mr. Sturm responded no.
Chairman Rawson returned to the meeting at 3:00 p.m.
Senator Coffin proposed, that should the committee choose to process this resolution, he would propose an amendment which would add number 7, and call upon the legislature to appropriate the funds necessary to accomplish the first 6 goals, and address that to the legislature and perhaps congress instead of the State Board of Education.
Mary Peterson, Deputy Superintendent, Department of Education, State of Nevada noted, as a point of clarification, someone raised the question about what they are doing to raise math and science standards. She explained, the national teachers of mathematics spent several years developing nationwide standards for mathematics and the Department of Education has adopted those standards and incorporated them into their course of study. If the Governor's budget goes through, they would have a math consultant help them implement those. The National Science Teachers Association has not completed all their work on the standards for science. The information they have to date has been adopted and incorporated into the course of study.
Senator O'Donnell asked Ms. Peterson are those minimum or average standards. Ms. Peterson answered, that their course of study addressed the average or middle student.
Senator Neal asked, is your agency going to be responsible for meeting these goals by the year 2000. Ms. Peterson answered, that would be the expectation of this resolution, that they would work on achieving those goals, but stated it would be difficult to meet all of those goals in 7 years. Senator Neal asked for a clarification on number 1, and stated that it seems there would have to be mandatory preschool. Ms. Peterson noted yes, that would be one interruption and noted that the majority of children come to school without prior preschool experience.
Senator Neal asked for clarification of number 5. Ms Peterson responded, the target is the adult population and there are a large number of adults in the state who have not completed high school. That goal would tell them they need to expand the program to those people.
Senator Neal noted that he interpreted number 6 having to learn three or 4 foreign languages, in order to do this. Ms. Peterson referred to the global economy and explained the interpretation would be that the adults in this state would have to have mathematics, reading, and basic skills to be knowledgeable citizens, so they could compete in a global economy.
Chairman Rawson noted, in his opinion, it is important to set lofty goals. If the legislature does not reach out for some things, then they will never be accomplished. He stated, he would like to see this processed and requested that some room be left for local self determination.
Ms. Cahill , representing NSEA, testified in support of A.C.R. 16 and explained she defended this bill on the assembly side, through a process of proposed amendments, which NSEA opposed. She explained, if this is put in a historical perspective and the committee should recall when the report Nation At Risk came out, a decade of public education bashing ensued. Teachers felt like they took a great deal of the brunt of that. When the goals came out of the education summit for this bill, NSEA was very excited to participate, to formulate some of the goals and worked directly with governors who attended. In many states, members of the National Education Association worked with the governors to help formulate the goals and she agreed with Senator Rawson's statement, it is good to have goals and they should be lofty. This does not speak to implementation, that is totally left up to the local school districts. This resolution would state that the state agrees to these goals and ask that the legislature support this resolution.
Senator Coffin asked, do the school districts have control over the resources to implement the goals. Ms. Cahill responded no.
Senator Brown noted, that by saying these are the goals, she interprets that the legislature would be telling the school districts, if they have less resources, they have to cut from areas other than things which will affect the accomplishment of these goals, and asked is that correct. Ms. Cahill explained, that the resolved part of this resolution says the Nevada legislature supports the National Education goals as resolved by the State of Nevada. The State of Nevada is currently working through Nevada 2000, to adopt goals that are not included in this resolution. This would not exclude the addition of other goals, it would possibly help districts and the state, focus on where the resources should go, but it may not be just education money that is being looked at. She stated, she does not see number 1 as a function of public education and that resources may have to come from another source.
Chairman Rawson noted that this kind of legislation can definitely be overplayed and more importance described to it. He explained, it just has a function of trying to stimulate or excite people towards an end.
Senator Neal questioned, what does education mean to the citizens of Nevada. Is it just the basic process of being able to think, become versatile, diverse in what citizens are able to do or does it become a specialized type of situation where the job needs of specialty fields are met. He noted that sometimes the job is there for a while, but then disappears. He stated, the past record has indicated that that particular method of education of the population is not the direction that should be taken. The early educators, Aristotle, Plato and Socrates used the method of being able to think and reason. This allows for flexibility and diversity of mind, being able to deal with problems and solve problems. Usually, when a goal is set, it drives a person to try to meet that end goal and that becomes a specialization that might cripple thinking in terms of what the real needs should be.
Chairman Rawson noted, it is becoming more apparent that basic skills must be taught, but people must be taught to be adaptable, changeable, or teachable, because there may be change in their life. He noted, if there would be at least 90 percent graduation rate from high school, immediately society would see a difference in the work force, welfare rate, aid to dependent children and those kinds of programs. He explained, this would not be a lasting change unless people are taught to be adaptable throughout their lives.
Bobbie Gang, Lobbyist, Nevada Women's Lobby and American Association of University Women testified that both groups support A.C.R. 16. She concurred with Chairman Rawson and Senator Brown regarding the importance of having goals and to have lofty goals. It is very important to identify, by resolution, the goals that the legislature would like to see the educational institutions of this state work toward and she encouraged the legislatures' support of A.C.R. 16.
Sherri Lakin, Parent, testified in opposition to A.C.R. 16. She stated that goal setting is a way of accomplishing something when there are strategics involved that would lead to that. This resolution would align us with America 2000. She said she would like to see Nevada stand independent of this, to set goals that are not so idealistic, that are more reasonable and be more easily accomplished. She stated education should be a preparation for life, not a lifelong birth to death government agenda. American 2000 calls for national goals, nationals standards, national teacher certification, national report cards, new modeled national school, national scholarships, national rewards for those who cooperate, and the possibility of national regulation of teacher pay. She said that should be kept within the state. She expressed concern that if Nevada is aligned with the nation, this could lead to the state legislators and elected school boards being irrelevant. She stated the main flaw is not teaching 1st graders to read. Also it does not address the substitution of psychology for the basics in many of our schools. She is very much opposed to this because she believes aligning ourselves with America 2000 would take choices away from parents, taxpayers, local lawmakers and teachers.
Senator Brown asked for clarification of what she meant by substitution of psychology for the basics. Ms. Lakin responded that in the elementary classrooms, children are being taught that it is okay if the child does not feel like learning today or is not ready to learn today and this does not teach the children to be responsible.
Senator O'Donnell stated that the American 2000 contained the freedom of choice for schooling and asked is that not correct. Ms. Lakin stated there is a vague mention of it in there, however, when the bill was actually being drafted on a national level, that part was left out.
Lynn Chapman, Parent, testified in opposition to America 2000. In her opinion, the Nevada 2000 goals and would like to see physical education, parental involvement, the arts, occupational education, foreign languages, and civic responsibilities put back into the curriculum. She expressed concern that number 1 stated, that all children in this state must start school, ready to learn and would force parents to put their children into a preschool. She explained that every child is different and each one reaches the learning stage at a different age. Her concern for forcing children into school at too early an age might turn them off and might be part of the problem with todays children who are dropping out. She concurred with Ms. Lakin to keep local control, which is important for the parents and well as the children. While talking with other parents, she have heard from different parents who have had children in different schools, different teachers saying things like they want all the children to be all the same. She stressed that no child is the same as any other child. She is wondering if that thought comes back to America 2000.
Senator Brown stated she did not interpret that as having to go to preschool. The reading she had done, indicates that in certain households, children are read to, and are fed nutritionally a certain way that would make them ready for school. Ms. Lakin asked how will that be achieved. Senator Brown explained these are very general goals and just as an example, goal number 1 seems to fit in with the Parents as Teachers program where parents were taught how to read to their children and do things that will stimulate them when they become learners. She explained, a resolution, is not that specific because it is not a statute.
Senator Glomb stated in this resolution, it says that the national educational goals have been modified for the state of Nevada. It was the idea of the committee, that children will be ready to learn. The goal is to try and provide families with what they need so that when their child comes to school, they are optimally ready, knowing that each child is an individual and has different strengths and weaknesses.
Chairman Rawson closed the hearing on A.C.R. 16.
Chairman Rawson asked the committee for suggestions on A.B. 154.
Senator Glomb noted there was some discussion that the bill be modified, so that the school districts could choose a device that would best work in terms of equipment, that it not specifically state the swing arm. Chairman Rawson stated rather than codifying the device, let us speak to the issue as the device changes, that idea. He asked Senator Glomb to work on an amendment and report back to the committee.
Chairman Rawson asked the committee, if they would like to look at issues on A.C.R. 16. He advised, he would like to work with the idea of processing it. He noted, there were some suggestions for modification more towards Nevada and he stated he would like to spend a few days on that.
Chairman Rawson reopened A.C.R. 16 for testimony.
Sheila Ward representing the Nevada Eagle Forum stated that the gist of the amendment to A.C.R. 16 spoke to the concerns that have been brought before the legislature, regarding the idea of nationally standardized goals and pay for teachers, etc. Chairman Rawson explained, there is a problem that people who are eager to reach out for lofty goals that will bring education to a higher level. Some people have done that without thinking in terms of this being under national control. Ms. Ward explained these changes in the wording would insure more local control and just put into the amendment some of the changes. She presented a copy of the amendments to the committee (EXHIBIT D).
Chairman Rawson stated, in his opinion, what lead to the goals 2000, is the issue that all states need to reach a significantly higher level if our country is going to compete in the world today. In that sense, they were presented as a unifying force.
Chairman Rawson directed the committee's attention to A.C.R. 17.
ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 17: Urges public schools to participate in Nevada School Improvement Project.
Chairman Rawson readdressed A.C.R. 17.
SENATOR BROWN MOVED TO DO PASS A.C.R. 17.
SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL AND SENATOR TOWNSEND WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
* * * * *
There being no further business Chairman Rawson adjourned the meeting at 3:45 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
Judy Alexander,
Committee Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Senator Raymond D. Rawson, Chairman
DATE:
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Senate Committee on Human Resources and Facilities
April 12, 1993
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