MINUTES OF THE
SENATE COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS AND OPERATIONS
Sixty-seventh Session
June 22, 1993
The Senate Committee on Legislative Affairs and Operations was called to order by Chairman Mike McGinness, at 3:04 p.m., on Tuesday, June 22, 1993, in Room 227 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Meeting Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster.
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:
Senator Mike McGinness, Chairman
Senator William J. Raggio, Vice Chairman
Senator Raymond D. Rawson
Senator Dina Titus
Senator Diana M. Glomb
Senator Matthew Q. Callister
COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT:
Senator R. Hal Smith (Excused)
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:
John Crossley, Director, Legislative Counsel Bureau
Bob Erickson, Research Director, Legislative Counsel Bureau
Mavis Scarff, Committee Secretary
OTHERS PRESENT:
John Mendoza, Chairman, Public Service Commission
Michael Naylor, Director, Air Pollution Control Division,
Clark County Health District
Russ Fields, Executive Director, Nevada Department of
Minerals
Robin Joyce, ARCO
Charlie Silvestri, Southwest Gas Corporation
James Hawke, Director, Offices of Community Services
Alan Glover, Nevada Power Company
Stanley Warren, Lobbyist, Sierra Pacific Power Company
Robert Balzar, Project Manager, Resource Planning,
Sierra Pacific Power Company
Chairman McGinness opened the hearing on Senate Concurrent Resolution (S.C.R.) 35.
Senate Concurrent
Resolution 35: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study to review present efforts to conserve and develop energy resources in Nevada. (BDR R-568)
Senator McGinness informed the committee members that the latest update on the interim studies was in their folders and discussion followed while waiting for Senator Titus.
Senator Titus, Clark County, District 7, indicated that this resolution calls for the creation of an interim study to review past and present efforts to conserve and develop energy resources in Nevada, and formulate a policy on the uses of the sources of energy in this state. She stated that this was a timely subject for the legislature to be addressing and urged the committee members to support the resolution. She noted that energy studies are going on all around the state but it is piecemeal, and it needs to be put together to develop a comprehensive plan for the state. She said she would offer an amendment to the resolution that would add emphasis to study the impact of energy on Nevada's economy.
Senator Raggio asked if she thinks an interim study would be able to bring in the necessary expertise or should this be a study with legislators and other persons on the committee?
Senator Titus indicated that there are experts in the fields that have indicated they are willing to participate in the study, and stated she wouldn't object to having involvement from people outside the committee. She further noted that this study ties in with the water study.
John Mendoza, Chairman, Public Service Commission, stated he supports S.C.R. 35, and he noted they have a process called Integrated Resource Planning that is in Nevada Revised Statutes (NRS) 704.746 and noted that many of the areas that are covered in S.C.R. 35 are addressed in those resource plans. He reminded the committee that the public utilities in the state are required to submit a 20-year resource plan which is reviewed every 3 years, and all of that material is available to the committee. Mr. Mendoza reviewed the areas in the resource plan that are addressed in the study. He stated his purpose for being at the meeting is to support the bill and advise the committee that information has been developed that would be useful to them.
Senator Raggio asked about the necessity for the study since the Public Service Commission has all of this information available. He asked if it is feasible, in lieu of a study, to gather that information into a report?
Mr. Mendoza replied he did not have sufficient information to address the question. He indicated that the information has not been collated in one particular place and somebody would have to cull it.
Michael Naylor, Director, Air Pollution Control Division, Clark County Health District, made the following points:
Nevada does not have an energy policy or energy plan, and the intent of this interim study would be to develop an such a plan.
The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) will be issuing an action plan in August, which will address voluntary cost effective methods of reaching the goal of limiting carbon dioxide emissions in the year 2000 based on 1990 levels.
The Clark County Health District receives an annual grant from the EPA, and this year one of their commitments is the general area of pollution prevention. The arrangement gives them technical and financial resources to assist with the interim study that produces the energy plan for Nevada.
The largest component of energy use, at least in Clark County, is the burning of fossil fuels to power electrical power generating facilities and the approximately 800,000 motor vehicles operating in the state.
The Nevada Test Site may be an ideal site to further develop and utilize, on utility scales, alternative energy sources such as solar development, etc.
The energy policy will probably end up identifying strategies to reduce carbon dioxide, and that would cover renewable sources for electrical generation, more energy efficient buildings and residences, strategic planting of shade trees, and improvements to public transit.
Mr. Naylor encouraged the committee to pass this bill and offered to work with the interim committee.
Russ Fields, Executive Director, Nevada Department of Minerals, indicated the Department of Minerals supports S.C.R. 35, and urges the committee to recommend adoption of the resolution. He read from prepared text (Exhibit C) and distributed the pamphlet (Exhibit D).
Robin Joyce, representing ARCO, indicated that ARCO would support the resolution with the four amendments that Senator Titus has agreed to add to the resolution. He indicated that "these amendments are intended to bring balance to the resolution as far as the economic impact that such a study would create." He added that the other major oil companies are in agreement as long as the amendments are enacted.
Charlie Silvestri, representing Southwest Gas Corporation, indicated their support of S.C.R. 35, and offered their assistance to an interim committee.
James Hawke, Director, Offices of Community Services, indicated his support of this resolution. His reasons for supporting this study included:
When the energy statutes were developed in 1977, NRS 523 was enacted setting down an energy policy.
With the proposed reorganization, the combination of the energy programs into the Department of Business and Industry, provides some outstanding opportunities to hook together Nevada's energy program with business and industry.
The federal Energy Policy Act of 1992 provides funding, and opportunities to put together the state's energy policy with things that favor business, industry, and economic development.
Mr. Hawke indicated he submitted a proposal to the U.S. Department of Energy which has been funded in the amount of approximately $13,000 which would be available to provide financial support for this study. He, too, offered his services.
Alan Glover, Nevada Power Company, indicated they are in opposition to the study for the reason that his company is spending approximately $1.6 million to $2 million a year on their resource plan and they think that is a substantial amount of money dealing with these areas. He noted that if the study goes forward, they would have to commit additional time and money, and feel that would be an unfair burden.
Senator Titus asked if they have legislators or public policy members working on their plan?
Mr. Glover indicated they do not, but that $1.6 million involves a lot of working people. He said it was on file with the Public Service Commission for the committee's use.
Senator Titus asked that if it was on file with the Public Service Commission, why would it put an additional burden on them to have this committee.
Mr. Glover answered, "Senator, cause I think we'll have to look at our interests as it involves any kind of development of an energy policy on how that would affect our company, meaning people would have to attend the meetings, of course, you'd call upon the company for information."
Senator Titus said, "So it's just selfish interest on your part."
Mr. Glover indicated he wouldn't put it that way and he noted that this body required the utilities companies to do these resource plans, and that the money comes from the rate payers of the state of Nevada.
Senator Titus asked if his study includes everything that is happening in all areas of energy throughout the whole state?
Mr. Glover replied it included only their service area.
Senator McGinness asked if Nevada Power and Sierra Pacific are working on geothermal and solar potential development research?
Mr. Glover replied he did not know, and was not qualified to answer.
Stan Warren, Lobbyist, Sierra Pacific Power Company, introduced Robert Balzar the author of their resource plan.
Robert Balzar, Project Manager, Resource Planning, Sierra Pacific Power Company, read from printed material (Exhibit E).
Senator Titus said, "You are primarily concerned with duplication. You think this has already been done. We don't need to do it again."
Mr. Balzar replied, "Yes."
Senator Titus asked if the studies they had done were primarily in the northern part of the state?
Mr. Balzar indicated they cover their service territory and some of the smaller rural electric districts.
Senator Titus asked why it would be a burden to share the information with the legislature, so it could be put together with other energy sources to develop a comprehensive plan for the state?
Mr. Balzar rejected the word burden indicating they feel the information is available, and is basically public knowledge.
Senator Titus replied, "I suggest that you're not really worried about doing a study as being duplicative. I think you're worried that the study might produce some suggestions or recommendations for alternatives that you might not be willing to address in your business and so, that's what you're afraid, and that's why you're opposed to it."
Mr. Balzar said that was not a fair characterization. He indicated their electric planning processes are open and they evaluate all potential avenues for energy savings.
Senator Titus noted that they evaluate it, but that it would not be evaluated by somebody outside their industry.
Mr. Warren replied that it is provided to the Public Service Commission who sits in judgement on that, and that it is not a document that one can say "speaks for itself."
Mr. Balzar indicated that in their current filing, they have 15 interveners in that process.
Senator Titus noted that it was interesting that just the two power companies are opposed to the resolution.
Senator Callister asked to confirm Mr. Hawke's statement that most of the other western states have already adopted this kind of a study.
Mr. Hawke replied in the affirmative, indicating that he had talked with his counterparts in those states and has collected their documents. He stated the Western State Energy Board is a compact formed by each state, approved by state legislature, and then by Congress. It is composed of 17 western states, three western Canadian provinces, and three western Mexican states.
Senator Callister asked if he said they all have an energy policy except Nevada?
Mr. Hawke indicated Nevada is the last one.
Senator Callister asked if he knew about the rest of the states.
Mr. Hawke replied that he could find out.
Senator Callister requested that he do so. He said to Mr. Balzar that he did not understand why he opposes the study.
Mr. Balzar answered that their opposition is one of the forum as opposed to the actual mechanics and techniques of the work. He indicated that they invest a lot of time and effort; their April filing is their second filing in 2 years, that each filing costs about $1 million, and they are concerned that a legislative commission is not necessarily the right forum. When asked why, he said they feel it is in the Public Service Commission of Nevada's regime, and they are doing this.
Senator Callister asked if the Public Service Commission has a study that encompasses everything that is proposed in this bill draft?
Mr. Balzar answered no, but when asked how are they doing it, he replied he thinks it would be fairly easy to assemble the information from the major utilities in the state.
When Senator Callister asked why not have the legislature collate the information, Mr. Warren indicated that, by legislative mandate, they provide the information to the Public Service Commission, and he is not sure that the reports speak totally for themselves, but it will take additional effort and manpower on behalf of the company to become involved. He continued saying, "serving the Public Service Commission in looking for, now, another possibility of a different accountability, we begin to get caught in the middle of the thing."
Senator Callister asked, "Accountability for what, Stan, we're asking you to participate in a study."
Mr. Warren indicated that they do this already.
Senator Callister noted that they do it for their one industry.
Mr. Warren said that geographically they are covering about 60 percent of the state.
Senator Callister indicated the legislature is looking beyond the one industry. He asked for an explanation of the statement "environmental and economic externalities as a factor in new resource additions."
Mr. Balzar stated that is an economic exercise that penalizes fossil fuel plants by providing an adder to the cost of that plant. He explained that the adder is the externality, and that the adder is a function of the amount of pollution that the plant puts into the air. He said the economic externality is that the power plant provides benefits to the local economy.
Senator Callister asked how does that have to do with whether Sierra Pacific Power opposes or supports this study?
Mr. Balzar indicated that what he was saying is that Nevada's energy policy is there, it is working, and it is moving forward.
Senator Callister asked what is Nevada's energy policy.
Mr. Balzar stated, "We feel that the energy policy is one that is promoting conservation as effected in utility regulation, and is also requiring the utilities to incorporate judgement, if you will, on the environmental externalities of new resource options."
After further discussion, Senator Callister said he did not see any consideration that would address much of what was recommended in the study.
Mr. Warren said in the utility business they look at energy policy from a point of providing service that is needed in the future, considering the effect on the environment.
Senator Callister indicated that the Public Service Commission is a regulator not a policy maker. He stated that policy is left to the legislature, and that the measure under consideration will look into Nevada's future needs and formulate a policy.
Senator Glomb indicated that she does not think their company is in a position to recommend public policy and legislative changes, and stated she feels Nevada does need a body to look at this and make recommendations. She noted that the Public Service Commission is in favor of this resolution.
Senator Callister requested the Mr. Hawke provide the committee with a copy of one of their studies. He agreed.
Chairman McGinness closed the hearing on S.C.R. 35 and called a recess at 4:00 p.m. The committee reconvened at 4:15 p.m. and Senator McGinness opened discussion on Assembly Bill (A.B.) 4.
Assembly Bill 4 Requires lobbyists to provide additional information in registration statements and monthly reports. (BDR 17-13)
Senator Titus noted the purpose of the bill is to let the public know which lobbyist has influence over which legislator through public disclosure of expenditures made by lobbyists on behalf of legislators. She said she wants to broaden the language because she thinks a lobbyist can have more influence over a legislator than just taking them out to dinner, including living with a legislator or hiring a person to work for a legislator.
Senator Raggio indicated he would like to amend page 2, line 2 and take out the words "for compensation" because that provides a loophole. Relative to the proposed amendment, he noted he thinks it is was overly broad. He suggested replacing the words "anything of value" with "including money or services provided."
After discussion, Senator Titus agreed. She then brought up the situation of a caucus and further discussion ensued.
SENATOR RAGGIO MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS A.B. 4 BY, ON PAGE 2, LINE 2 DELETING "FOR COMPENSATION" AND TO FURTHER AMEND THE BILL AS PROVIDED IN PROPOSED AMENDMENT NO. 994, EXCEPT THAT THE LAST PORTION SHOULD READ "INCLUDING MONEY OR SERVICES PROVIDED TO A LEGISLATOR OR TO ANY OTHER PERSON OR GROUP FOR THE BENEFIT OF A LEGISLATOR." SENATOR RAGGIO MOVED TO FURTHER AMEND THE BILL BY ELIMINATING LINES 23 THROUGH 30 BEGINNING "REPORT MUST IDENTIFY" AND ENDING WITH "EXPENDITURES WERE MADE."
SENATOR TITUS SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR SMITH WAS NOT PRESENT FOR THE VOTE.)
The meeting was adjourned at 4:31 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
Mavis Scarff,
Committee Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Senator Mike McGinness, Chairman
DATE:
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Senate Committee on Legislative Affairs and Operations
June 22, 1993
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