MINUTES OF THE
SENATE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION
Sixty-seventh Session
June 8, 1993
The Senate Committee on Transportation was called to order by Chairman William R. O'Donnell, at 2:15 p.m., on Tuesday, June 8, 1993, in Room 226 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Meeting Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster.
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:
Senator William R. O'Donnell, Chairman
Senator Lawrence E. Jacobsen, Vice Chairman
Senator Leonard V. Nevin
Senator Joseph M. Neal, Jr.
Senator Thomas J. Hickey
Senator Lori L. Brown
COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT:
Senator Mark A. James
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:
Paul Mouritsen, Senior Research Analyst
Melanie Rosenberg, Committee Secretary
OTHERS PRESENT:
Steven Albert, Representative, Nevada Department of Wildlife
Bernie Anderson, Assemblyman, District 31
Doug Busselman, Representative, Nevada Farm Bureau
Joe Dahl, Representative, Elko County Commissioners
Daryl Capurro, Private Citizen
Vonne Chowning, Assemblywoman, District 28
Brian Herr, External Affairs, Nevada Bell
Joe Johnson, Representative, Sierra Club
Larry Johnson, Representative, Coalition for Nevada's Wildlife
George Kent, Private Citizen
Helen Leveille, Representative, Public Land Access Coalition
John Madole, Manager, Nevada Chapter of the Associated General Contractors of America, Inc.
Mac McClurg, Private Citizen
John Shields, Private Citizen
Julian Smith, Private Citizen
Ken Stowers, Representative, Bureau of Land Management
Ted Younct, Private Citizen
Bernie Anderson, Assemblyman, District 31, testified in favor of S.B. 176, (Exhibit C).
Vonne Chowning, Assemblywoman, District 28, testified in favor of the bill. She stated she chaired the sub-committee which dealt with this bill. She stated there has been an interim committee dealing with this subject since 1979. Ms. Chowning stated this bill defines a "public road". She read from section 3 sub section 2. She argued there would have to be justification for closing a public road and for holding a hearing if a road is closed.
Chairman O'Donnell asked if the petition to the county commission for closing or opening roads, by five or more people, was the design intended. Ms. Chowning stated the petition would allow both sides to appear before the county commission.
Mr. Anderson stated the intention was for opening, closing, or relocation of roads.
Ms. Chowning stated the process was designed to be as fair as possible to everyone. She stated this is the first time there is a method for all parties to try to settle without hiring attorneys and going to court.
Chairman O'Donnell questioned how is the Bureau of Land Management's (BLM) closure of roads settled when it is on their land. Mr. Anderson stated there is a senate bill which discusses BLM's land. Mr. Anderson stated the road has to go somewhere on public land to qualify.
Senator Neal questioned the constitutionality of this bill. Mr. Anderson stated it is constitutional because it is not a taking or infringing on federal law.
Senator Neal stated he was concerned with the language "the resident may petition" and that the resident has to act on that petition. He argued the resident already has that right. Mr. Anderson stated the legal council did not find a constitutional question with that.
Senator Jacobsen questioned how to differentiate Indian land from private land. Mr. Anderson commented this is the reason for the bill. Mr. Anderson argued this bill would delineate what the standing of those roads are.
Senator Jacobsen stated he hoped in an emergency situation the emergency crews could go wherever they needed to go as in current law. Mr. Anderson stated there was no intent to change this. Mr. Anderson argued we lose parts of the state when people padlock off certain areas for no real reason.
Helen Leveille, Representative, Nevada Public Land Access Coalition, testified from Exhibit D. Ms. Leveille testified this issues has become very important recently because Nevada is 86% federal land; 67% is BLM and 19% is Forest Service. She referred to Exhibit E which is on file in the research library.
Senator Jacobsen asked who had been the greatest "stumbling block" when trying to open lands. Ms. Leveille responded the county commission.
Joe Johnson, Representative, Sierra Club, testified that the Sierra Club supports the bill. He stated the Sierra Club viewed this bill as a process by which to open roads and not just for closing roads. In response to Chairman O'Donnell's question, Mr. Johnson stated he was unsure of the Sierra Club's position on amending the bill to remove the closure of roads since that was not the intent of the bill.
Ken Stowers, Representative, BLM, stated he was neutral on the bill. He stated the BLM can not deny access to in-holdings (patented lands or mining claims), instead they can dictate alternative places to place roads or access areas. Mr. Stowers stated people with third party rights still are considered owners of that property.
Chairman O'Donnell questioned Mr. Stowers opinion of these petitions going to the county commission. Mr. Stowers responded that they need to start at the county commission level or in the courts. Chairman O'Donnell commented that the BLM would still want to have the courts or some adjudication if they did not agree with the county commission.
Senator Jacobsen asked how you tell who owns what land the wild horses on the land. Mr. Stowers responded if it was surveyed after 1910 then there are brass cap survey monuments on the land but if it was surveyed before 1910 it is difficult to tell. Mr. Stowers stated if the horses are on BLM land they belong to the BLM.
Senator Jacobsen asked if there was a law in the past that required BLM to "grade" the roads once a year. Mr. Stowers responded the BLM has road maintenance agreements with various counties. Mr. Stowers commented that the counties and the BLM often maintain each others roads per the agreement.
Senator Hickey asked if there are such things as "ways." Mr. Stowers replied that a way is where people have driven through and have caused a groove in the land but that they are not roads.
Mac McClurg, Private Citizen, testified in support of the bill. His testimony is from Exhibit F.
Larry Johnson, Representative, Coalition For Nevada's Wildlife, stated he was in favor of the bill.
John Shields, Private Citizen, testified in favor of the bill. (Exhibit G)
Senator Neal questioned why the gates on the roads on the way to Las Vegas are padlocked, other than to keep animals from going on the roads. Mr. Shields responded he has received much support for public access to these roads.
Senator Neal asked what the BLM is required to do as far as fencing off the roads. Mr. Stowers responded that the BLM is not required to do so but the Nevada Department of Transportation (NDOT) often does put fencing up and NDOT often locks gates for fire protection.
George Kent, Private Citizen, testified in support of the bill. He stated he has researched public property rights after he was refused entrance to a public road.
Ted Younct, Clint Buffington, D.F. Gulbrauson, and Jim Debrick, Private Citizens, stated they were in favor of the bill.
Julian C. Smith, Attorney, testified against the bill. He stated he represented Humbolt County when the BLM closed the roads to Blue Lake which were closed to protect wilderness areas. The county lost its case. He stated the county can not require a road to be opened on BLM property. He stated this bill is about private land and the opening of roads which are deemed to be on public lands. He stated he is not really pro or con on the bill because it does not significantly change current law. He feels it does place an additional burden on the counties and for that reason should have a fiscal note. He restated the Winnemucca Ranch road story.
Senator Neal asked what a Revised Statute 2477 road is. Mr. Smith stated it is a federal statute that was passed at the time of the first mining law and is a right of way for public use upon construction.
Mr. Smith stated there would be problems if five people could call a meeting of the county commissioners to have hearings on road closures. The county would have to hire an additional attorney, post notices of the hearings in the papers, and find alternative roads if the commission decided to close roads. Thus, he argued a fiscal note was necessary.
Senator Jacobsen asked Mr. Smith if he would be stopped if he tried to enter the Winnemucca Ranch. Mr. Smith responded the Lareau's will not let people through the gate but that people can go around the ranch.
Senator Brown commented that the documentation on a petition must justify a meeting of the county commission and not just when five people file a petition. Mr. Smith questioned what constitutes good documentation. Senator Brown responded the county commission would decide that.
Mr. Smith stated the county commission has held several hearings on request of Ms. Leveille without this bill so, he suggested the bill is superfluous.
Brian Herr, External Affairs, Nevada Bell, testified in favor of the bill. He stated Nevada Bell's concern was that roads could be closed where they have facilities. He submitted a amendment (Exhibit H) which would allow public utilities access to roads (which could be closed) to provide maintenance to facilities.
Senator Brown asked why this amendment was not added in the assembly. Stan Warren, Representative, Sierra Power, responded the bill had been amended to bring them into it.
Senator Jacobsen questioned the effects of a closed road on the utility companies. Mr. Herr responded that the people in sparsely populated areas could go without services until they could complete a petition to enter a closed road. Mr. Herr stated the utilities would probably receive favorable access to closed roads.
Steven Albert, Representative, Department of Wildlife, stated he supports the bill.
Senator Jacobsen asked if any roads were designated for wildlife and should someone leave those roads would they be on public property. Mr. Albert stated he was unaware of any such roads.
Larry Johnson, Representative, Coalition for Nevada's Wildlife, testified in favor of the bill. He stated the bill would still allow for a case by case analysis. He gave his description of the Winnemucca Ranch case. He stated it does not change the current statute by that much, but it brings the problem into focus.
Senator Jacobsen asked if a road is on a map and has a name, is it a public road. Mr. Johnson responded that does not mean it is a public road. He stated that all roads, private and public, have been mapped.
Doug Busselman, Executive Vice President, Nevada Farm Bureau, testified in favor of the bill (Exhibit I).
John Madole, Manager, Nevada Chapter of the Associated General Contractors of America, Inc., stated he is in favor of the bill.
Daryl Capurro, Private Citizen, testified in favor of the bill. He stated he is a member of the coalition that has testified in favor of the bill. He suggested the committee not add amendments to the closure of roads section of the bill. Mr. Capurro stated there is some concern that congress will eliminate the last vestige of the definitions and recognition of RS 2477 roads. He stated if that is done there must be something in Nevada's law that recognizes these roads or there will be access problems for everyone.
Mr. Stowers commented the 1921 Federal Highways Act allocated money to each state for maintenance of secondary roads. He stated each county was to prepare a map of what they considered public roads for purposes of acquiring the federal money. He stated the money was based on the milage of the roads.
Senator Neal asked if the BLM has a map of all the RS 2477 roads. Mr. Stowers stated the BLM has attempted to get all the counties to submit maps. He stated some counties have not complied.
Joe Dahl, Representative, Elko County Commissioners, testified that this bill is "so off-track of the original bill." He suggested the committee forget about this bill.
Ms. Leveille asked the committee to read the documentation she submitted.
Chairman O'Donnell closed the hearing on A.B. 176 and opened the work session on S.B. 452.
Senate Bill 452: Authorizes department of motor vehicles and public safety to issue collegiate license plates.
Chairman O'Donnell asked Paul Mouritsen to explain the amendment. The committee then discussed the bill and the amendment.
Chairman O'Donnell asked for a motion on S.B. 452.
SENATOR BROWN MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS S.B. 452.
SENATOR HICKEY SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION FAILED. (SENATOR'S NEAL, NEVIN, AND JACOBSEN VOTED NO.)
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Chairman O'Donnell closed the work session on S.B. 452 and opened the work session on A.B. 327.
Assembly Bill 327: Requires certain fees for analysis to be collected from certain defendants before or at same time that any fine is collected.
Chairman O'Donnell asked Paul Mouritsen to explain the amendment.
Chairman O'Donnell asked for a motion on A.B. 327.
SENATOR JACOBSEN MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS A.B. 327.
SENATOR NEVIN SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
* * * * *
Chairman O'Donnell closed the work session on A.B. 327 and opened the work session on A.B. 379.
Assembly Bill 379: Revises provisions regarding windshields in motor vehicles.
Chairman O'Donnell asked for a motion on A.B. 379.
SENATOR NEVIN MOVED TO DO PASS A.B. 379.
SENATOR BROWN SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATORS O'DONNELL AND JACOBSEN VOTED NO.)
* * * * *
There being no further business before the committee, Chairman O'Donnell adjourned the meeting at 4:25 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
Melanie Rosenberg,
Committee Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Senator William R. O'Donnell, Chairman
DATE:
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Senate Committee on Transportation
June 8, 1993
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