The joint meeting of the Committee on Government Affairs and Subcommittee on Judiciary was called to order at 3:48 p.m., on Tuesday, April 27, 1999. Chairman Douglas Bache presided in Room 4100 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Guest List. All Exhibits are available and on file at the Research Library of the Legislative Counsel Bureau.

COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:

Mr. Douglas Bache, Chairman

Mr. John Jay Lee, Vice Chairman

Mrs. Vivian Freeman

Ms. Dawn Gibbons

Mr. David Humke

Mr. Harry Mortenson

Mr. Roy Neighbors

Ms. Bonnie Parnell

Ms. Gene Segerblom

Mr. Kelly Thomas

Ms. Sandra Tiffany

Ms. Kathy Von Tobel

Mr. Wendell Williams

Mr. Bernie Anderson, Chairman, Judiciary

Ms. Sharron Angle

Mr. Greg Brower

Mr. Don Gustavson

Ms. Ellen Koivisto

Ms. Sheila Leslie

COMMITTEE MEMBERS EXCUSED:

Ms. Merle Berman

Mr. Tom Collins

GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT:

Senator Lawrence Jacobsen, Western Nevada Senatorial District

STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:

OTHERS PRESENT:

Senator Lawrence Jacobsen, Western Nevada Senatorial District, testified the bill was somewhat personal to him as the Peace Officers Standard and Training (POST) academy was located at the old Indian Colony and development of the facility had been one of his projects. He felt the location was ideal, as all the accommodations needed were available. POST over the years was at the forefront of law enforcement in training officers for both urban and rural areas. The most important aspect of the academy was the uniform training of all cadets. Whenever there was an incident or catastrophe that could not be contained by one agency in the rural areas, their neighbors must be relied on and if they received identical training, they could be interchangeable. Over the years it had become slightly fractured as the Nevada Highway Patrol felt they needed more training than what POST offered. He felt, however, the basics were offered at the POST academy, and he was impressed with the training and organization to date.

The chiefs and sheriffs had come to the conclusion that POST should be a stand-alone agency, so there would be no interference by politics or anything else that would change the direction of the academy, with the chiefs and sheriffs setting the training criteria. The accommodations were excellent, with a dormitory atmosphere with blind services furnishing meals and the area for operations was adequate. He pointed out a firing range was opened up behind the prison and he felt it was one of the best in the northern part of the state. He added even officers in the legislative building were required to be POST certified and because they carried firearms, they were also required to qualify on the range. He wanted it to be a stand-alone agency so law enforcement itself could build the training criteria, and he was in full support of the bill.

Dick Clark, Chief of Peace Officers Standard and Training (POST), stated he would address the main points of the bill. The bill came about due to a study conducted in the legislature and evolved from concerns by the sheriffs and chiefs association, Department of Motor Vehicles and Public Safety (DMV&PS), and the legislature regarding POST budget, structure, responsibilities, and placement in state government. The committee consisted of representatives from both DMV&PS, and the sheriffs and chiefs association. Six committee meetings were held and testimony was presented by outside experts on law enforcement education and training. A survey was made of all law enforcement agencies, with a completed final report that gave specific recommendations. Those recommendations were embodied in S.B. 68. In summary there were four main points: 1) Establish POST as a legitimate, autonomous, state regulatory agency for law enforcement; 2) Clarify duties and responsibilities statutorily; 3) Establish a staff structure sufficient to manage the POST day-to-day operations; and 4) Secure an adequate and dependable funding source.

Mr. Anderson stated quite frequently issues regarding the POST program came before the Committee on Judiciary and rather than have testimony before two committees he felt it would be appropriate to combine the hearing between both. He asked if the bill expanded the moving of an officer from one area of training into another; such as a category 3 to a category 2 officer. Mr. Clark responded there was no change in the status of any category in staff

Mr. Anderson questioned if the duty or scope was not being expanded in any way for anyone excluded in the past that might fall under the statutes in some other way. In 1991 he sat on a subcommittee that dealt with issues questioning who was actually classified as a police officer. Mr. Clark indicated there was nothing in the bill that changed any status or adjusted categories of anyone in law enforcement.

Mr. Anderson observed the heart and lung benefits would not then be extended to anyone who was not currently under the program. Mr. Clark responded that was correct.

Ms. Leslie said she was interested in learning who determined the curriculum at the academy. She had introduced a stalking bill and believed there was a section in the bill that held no enthusiasm for law enforcement. She wanted training on stalking and the criticism was law enforcement not want it in statute, but on page 4, section 9, sub-section (b), there was a specific training requirement where all peace officers were mandated to receive training in the handling of cases involving abuse or neglect of children. Mr. Clark replied the specifics of the curriculum offered was developed over many years and some courses had been legislated. Another training expansion was domestic violence. Previously the course was much shorter but was now expanded to a 24-hour class covering practical exercises for cadets.

Ms. Leslie questioned if he was indicating that the legislature should be deciding procedures. For example stalking, if there had been an inordinate amount of complaints from the public about a lack of training, should that course be mandated by statute as in previous conversations, she was under the impression there were no mandates.

Sheriff Kirkland, Washoe County, stated he would like to give a short overview. The decisions were made by the POST committee, and made up of sheriffs and chiefs from all over the state. The governor appointed the committee members, with appointments made from each peace officer category, and it was those individuals that decided what curriculum was offered. It came from full-time practitioners who dealt with difficulties, demands, and requirements of law enforcement on a day-to-day basis. The legislature did from time to time exercise its authority, deciding which courses needed to be included in the curriculum. Rarely was there any opposition to the teaching or introduction of a subject, and from his perspective he did not oppose stalking training. What had to be addressed was balancing the cost and if it should be a funded mandate. Larger agencies usually had the ability to assume those responsibilities. Smaller agencies had a problem as every hour an officer was away on training, overtime was being paid to cover that officer’s shift.

Senator Jacobsen added there was a POST advisory committee, and it was their job to determine the current needs and what should be covered in the curriculum. He remembered domestic violence several years ago was not a real concern, but now it was an issue that certainly needed to be addressed with adequate training. He felt because of the recent violence at Columbine High in Colorado, school violence would be the next issue to be addressed. It came to light recently that the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office had no jurisdiction on school grounds unless a search warrant was obtained. He thought it was imperative for all law enforcement to keep current and that was the job the academy fulfilled.

Chairman Bache felt clarification was necessary as the six repealed sections were rewritten as new language in chapter 289 of the Nevada Revised Statutes. It covered the renaming of "the committee" as "the commission" and established various requirements for training. Although it appeared to be a change in language, it was actually the same language moved from chapter 481 to chapter 289.

Ms. Koivisto interjected section 8 of the bill described the makeup of the commission and then section 10 stated, "The commission by a majority vote shall appoint an executive director" and be an unclassified position in state service. She questioned if that was how it currently worked. Mr. Clark responded he presently filled that position, and it was classified. The proposal was to give the commission more flexibility in its appointment.

Ms. Koivisto asked if the commission was going to be comprised of peace officers from various agencies around the state. Mr. Clark agreed, adding it would consist of seven members appointed by the governor, most of whom were executive leaders in law enforcement. One was the director of prisons, a category 3 position, and then there was a category 2 which was filled by a supervisor in juvenile probation.

Ms. Koivisto wondered if the person elected to be executive director would already be in a position in some other police agency in the state, and also serve as an unclassified employee in state government. Mr. Clark claimed the bill request identified the person who would be the day-to-day general manger. It would be a separate position appointed by the commissioners, not part of the commission.

Ms. Parnell questioned if there was a fiscal note. Mr. Clark replied there was a fiscal note due to a payment of $46,000 to DMV&PS to pay for the salary of the deputy attorney general who was an advisor to the POST committee. There were some other rent and maintenance costs amounting to approximately $46,000. Since there was no fiscal support from the department, there was also money included to hire a fiscal analyst with the total somewhere around $94,000.

Section 21 of the bill dealt with the fines and assessments, and Mr. Anderson asked if there was sufficient funding to meet training obligations, in other words "is the generator working." Chief Kirkland responded in looking back over 10 years the engine sometimes ran out of gas." In the meantime there were costs associated with training programs, employees, and an ongoing academy. So the bill was a way of rectifying any shortcomings. If the bill passed it would be the responsibility of the Governor’s Office to fund it. It took the peace officers and their groups out of the political thinking that had reached the point of "If you want more money, write more tickets," and part of the bill requested a stable funding source. He felt the public perception tickets were written to fund such items as a training program, must be changed.

Mr. Anderson said he had served on a subcommittee dealing with fees, fines, and forfeitures. The justice court system and the municipal court system had taken a different view to those dollars collected, and he agreed law enforcement should not be put in a position where writing tickets and a funding formula were related. He wondered if they could accomplish what was needed if section 21 was eliminated. Sheriff Kirkland responded more money was needed in order to continue the fundamental level of service provided in the past. Each year the state budget office determined that level, but they did not request a specific percentage. They would ask that funding be placed in the governor’s budget and then the budget staff would have to decide from where the funding came.

Mr. Anderson stated it was a mystery how there could be increased vehicular traffic at the same time there was a drop in revenue. Another concern he had was with the officer’s training relative to drug identification and other programs relative to identifying potential candidates for drug diversion programs. The drug court was a major element he had pursued for several past sessions and had met some resistance in terms of training in that particular quadrant. Additionally was his concern with acquiring drug-sniffing dogs for the highway patrol officers, as he did not want the vicious breeds employed by some agencies. He asked too if there would be a separation of training for highway patrol training and that of Washoe and Clark counties.

Sheriff Kirkland replied POST was vested with the authority to require a training minimum. There was some pressure, particularly from small counties that did not have the resources for training. In Clark County, their academy was 6 months long, and the Reno/Washoe combined academy training program was 4 months. So Clark County taught more than just the required minimum, but smaller counties did not have that luxury due to costs. Relative to drug training, he pointed out training had significantly increased, there again larger agencies could afford it. Many acquired drug-sniffing dogs along with increased training in drug recognition education programs. He stressed all enforcement agencies met the minimum standard requirements.

Mr. Anderson said in meeting the minimum requirements for small counties, he felt some of those programs should be added into the minimum standards for smaller counties. POST training from the state should cover more areas rather than less so all officers within the state had the same training. Sheriff Kirkland agreed, however, the issue was funding. Four years ago Washoe county had to stop POST training because of a severe shortage in their funding source.

Senator Jacobsen interjected that perhaps he needed to tell the committee just what the Stewart Indian Agency encompassed. It was 100 acres with a building on each acre, 3 miles south and east from U.S. 395. The fire marshal was housed on the property as well as Friends in Service Helping (FISH), domestic violence, battered women and children, hazardous material, Department of Prisons, and there were 43 offices in use at the old administration building. Inmates were used in keeping up the buildings and grounds. The Blind Services supplied the food and there was an office for prison industries, and the most important were the community college classes. Originally, the property was owned by the Department of Interior and housed the Indian children who were schooled on the premises. However, the Federal Government did a survey indicating the buildings could no longer be occupied because they were not earthquake proof. So the state bought 37 acres, including all the buildings currently occupied by the different state agencies.

Currently only about 50 percent of the buildings were actually occupied so there was plenty of room for expansion. He added two of the buildings were reserved for Indian services including one that housed a nice gift shop. The property had five wells, with one dedicated back to the Indians, as there was a residential area right next to Stewart. The only problem with the compound was it was on a single heating, electrical, sewer and water systems, so it was hard to isolate one building for use.

Humboldt County Sheriff Gene Hill, President of Nevada Sheriff’s and Chiefs Association, and a POST committee member, testified as a sheriff in a rural setting, he depended heavily on POST training. Some agencies used community colleges, he did not have that luxury nor was he sure he wanted it. An academy provided a structured atmosphere where all the officers there established a relationship and all had the same training. At present there was a waiting list for POST as so many different agencies were using it, so it was difficult to get his deputies enrolled. He hoped the committee would take into consideration the adversities rural counties faced and with passage of the bill it would certainly allow all of them to create better law enforcement agencies. There were always new issues that arose, and the officers needed POST training to keep them current with the times.

Mr. Anderson asked if railroad officers were considered category 2 officers in the bill. Mr. Clark responded that any specialized law enforcement officer was usually a category 2, but for the first time the Legislative Counsel Bureau designated specific requirements for a category 1 officer.

Mr. Anderson stated in the 1993 session all of the various sections were put together and placed in one chapter. He had presumed that the railway employees would be in the same class as the taxicab authority and other transportation positions and wanted to make sure they were classified as category 2 officers.

Mr. Clark wanted to stress that the POST committee staff would be transitioned into the POST commission staff and none would be laid off.

Douglas County Sheriff Ron Pierini, commented consumers throughout the state were satisfied with POST and the level of the training product. The 3 months an officer was away from the smaller agencies was all they could really be taxed. When he started 26 years ago training had just been increased from 2 to 3 weeks, but now training could be as long as 3 months. Larger agencies had the luxury of placing fewer officers on the street because the number of officers was so much higher. S.B. 68 made sense because it needed to be a standalone agency without supervision by another law enforcement agency. The commission was very sympathetic to local sheriffs and provided different types of training.

Mr. Anderson agreed POST put out a viable product given the limited amount of resources that funded the program. He had been in the legislature long enough to observe that every session citizens wanted to see police training increased to enhance their job in protecting the public. His observation relative to the rural counties, as they were smaller agencies, was there was no opportunity to put on extensive training programs. He felt perhaps training programs for smaller counties should be extended so issues of concern could be addressed, such as mental health, drug court, and domestic violence was now becoming a major problem.

Sheriff Pierini stated there were a lot of issues that needed addressing, but each agency must recognize and determine what was needed within their budget allowance. Additional training was offered at POST, but those programs needed to be identified within each organization.

Mr. Anderson said that was why he had imposed himself into the hearing. From time to time questions arose in the Committee on Judiciary regarding disparity between state agencies and local agencies because equal positions were underpaid by the state. State agencies did the training and then the local agencies because of higher benefits reaped the rewards.

Steve Barr, representing the Nevada Corrections Association, testified as a representative of correctional officers, who were also category 3. He just wanted to express his organization’s support of the bill.

Ms. Segerblom questioned Lt. Stan Olson if the Clark County peace officers went through training at the Stewart facility. Lt. Olson, with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department (Metro) responded the Metropolitan Police Department had an internal academy and did not recognize any other academy.

Ms. Segerblom asked if that was true, why was he serving on the commission. Mr. Olson replied the bill only called for a representative from Clark County. He added, when Sheriff Keller became sheriff their position on the POST committee was given to Henderson Police Department.

Ms. Leslie was not aware they had their own certification process and asked if the curriculum was different. Lt. Olson replied that all the requirements for POST were established by the administrative code, but additional classes could be added. Because it was a metropolitan area, the needs were far more complex and much different than those in rural counties.

Ms. Leslie wondered if Las Vegas residents with complaints about stalking should be referred to Metro to insure adequate training. Lt. Olson said it depended, neither North Las Vegas, Henderson, or Boulder City went through Metro’s academy. Because of sheer volume, there was just not enough room to train anyone other than Metro officers.

Sheriff Kirkland interjected the purpose of the POST committee was to establish, pursuant to state law and administrative code, the curriculum that every police officer in the State of Nevada must successfully complete including Las Vegas. The core curriculum was established by POST with a minimum amount of training hours required before receiving their category 1 certificate. The accreditation was handled by POST and the certificates for category 1 were issued to Las Vegas also. Metro chose to add additional hours for the officers because they had a variety of problems not encountered in the smaller communities. He stressed there was only one accreditation and that was received from POST and was mandated by law for every peace officer serving throughout the state.

Chairman Bache thanked Mr. Anderson and his judiciary members for participating in the hearing. Mr. Anderson said he appreciated the inclusion of his committee so they could appreciate with what the judiciary members used to deal. He added he was thankful that the hearings on bills dealing with law enforcement had, for the most part, been given to the Committee on Government Affairs.

As there was no further business the meeting was adjourned at 4:48 p.m.

RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:

Virginia Letts,

Committee Secretary

APPROVED BY:

Assemblyman Douglas Bache, Chairman

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