SENATE COMMITTEE ON FINANCE

MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE JOINT SUBCOMMITTEE

ON PUBLIC SAFETY/NATURAL RESOURCES/TRANSPORTATION

OF THE

SENATE committee on Finance

AND THE

ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS

Seventy-First Session

April 12, 2001

The Joint Subcommittee on Public Safety/Natural Resources/Transportation of the Senate Committee on Finance and the Assembly Committee on Ways and Means was called to order by Chairman Lawrence E. Jacobsen at 8:30 a.m., on Thursday, April 12, 2001, in Room 2134 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. All exhibits are available and on file at the Research Library of the Legislative Counsel Bureau.

SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT:

Senator Lawrence E. Jacobsen, Chairman

Senator William R. O’Donnell

Senator Joseph M. Neal Jr.

ASSEMBLY MEMBERS PRESENT:

Mr. David R. Parks, Chairman

Mr. Bob Beers

Mrs. Vonne S. Chowning

Mr. John W. Marvel

Mr. Richard D. Perkins

ASSEMBLY MEMBERS ABSENT:

Mrs. Marcia de Braga (Excused)

STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:

Gary L. Ghiggeri, Senate Fiscal Analyst

Carla Watson, Program Analyst

Michael J. Chapman, Program Analyst

Mark Krmpotic, Program Analyst

Bob Williston, Committee Secretary

OTHERS PRESENT:

Darrel Rexwinkel, Administrative Services Officer IV, Department of Prisons

Glen Whorton, Chief, Classification/Planning, Department of Prisons

Deborah L. Reed, Budget Analyst IV, Budget Division, Department of Administration

Allen Biaggi, Administrator, Division of Environmental Protection, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources

Jolaine Johnson, Deputy Administrator, Air, Mining and Water Programs, Division of Environmental Protection, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources

Lucy D. Zeier, Administrative Services Officer IV, Office of the Director, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources

R. Michael Turnipseed, P.E., Director, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources

Catherine Barcomb, Administrator, Commission for the Preservation of Wild Horses, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources

BUDGET CLOSINGS – DEPARTMENT OF PRISONS

Carla Watson, Program Analyst, Fiscal Analysis Division, Legislative Counsel Bureau, said that the three Department of Prisons budgets to be discussed are the Restitution Center, North, Stewart Conservation Camp, and Pioche Conservation Camp. She stated that she would first discuss the items that are the same for all three facilities.

Ms. Watson stated that the population projections for these three facilities are at emergency threshold in the Nevada Department of Prisons (NDOP) biennium plans as well as in The Executive Budget, and require no adjustments for inmate populations.

Ms. Watson indicated that legislative staff has reversed the collapsing of institutional facility accounts in the Correctional Facilities Budget Account 101‑3711 as requested by the Legislative Commission’s Budget Subcommittee and this subcommittee. She explained that the modules above E-900 on pages 1, 3, and 5 of closing list 3 (Exhibit C.) reflect the transfers back in, and the accounts have been returned to their original forms.

Ms. Watson said that in the M-100 modules (pages 2, 4, and 6 of Exhibit C) the Governor’s budget provides an inflationary increase of 16 percent for electricity and 15 percent for natural gas. She pointed out that no increase is provided for propane, which is used by some camps.

Ms. Watson stated it was requested that the NDOP provide projections for utilities for the biennium. She said the results are provided in closing list 3 (Exhibit C) as informational only, because the staff has not had an opportunity to analyze these projections provided by the department.

Ms. Watson added that adjustments to the M-200 modules for Stewart Conservation Camp and Pioche Conservation Camp (pages 4 and 6 of Exhibit C) include reducing room and board to Fiscal Year (FY) 1998 levels due to the high fire season in the base year.

Ms. Watson said the NDOP requested a separate category specifically for maintenance contracts to improve fiscal management and spending in this area. She indicated that the staff has created category “09” in module E‑900 to facilitate this request.

Restitution Center-North – Budget Page PRISONS-88 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-3724

Ms. Watson read the overview and technical adjustments outlined on pages 1 and 2 of Exhibit C.

Darrel Rexwinkel, Administrative Services Officer IV, Department of Prisons, stated that his department has no objections to what was presented by Ms. Watson. Senator Jacobsen asked whether Mr. Rexwinkel had any comments on any of the technical adjustments. Mr. Rexwinkel responded that he did not. Senator Jacobsen asked whether he had any comments about any of the decision units. Mr. Rexwinkel said the department believes the equipment that has been requested is sorely needed and is considered by them to be “bare bones.”

Senator Jacobsen asked what industrial chairs are. Mr. Rexwinkel replied that they are chairs that are expected to last longer than regular chairs and chairs seem to take some heavy use in an institutional setting. Senator Jacobsen asked whether these chairs would come from prison industries. Mr. Rexwinkel stated that is the plan, providing prison industries are able to supply the department with those kinds of chairs.

SENATOR O’DONNELL MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET 101-3724 WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF.

ASSEMBLYMAN MARVEL SECONDED THE MOTION.

THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL AND ASSEMBLYWOMEN CHOWNING AND DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

Stewart Conservation Camp – Budget Page PRISONS-100 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-3722

Ms. Watson read the overview, technical adjustments, and decision units outlined on pages 3 and 4 of Exhibit C.

E-710 Replacement Equipment – Page PRISONS-102

Mr. Rexwinkel assured the committee that the equipment requested was definitely needed at this facility.

ASSEMBLYMAN MARVEL MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET 101‑3722 WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF.

ASSEMBLYMAN PARKS SECONDED THE MOTION.

THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL AND ASSEMBLYWOMEN CHOWNING AND DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

Pioche Conservation Camp – Budget Page PRISONS-105 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-3723

Ms. Watson read the overview, technical adjustments, and decision units outlined on page 6 of Exhibit C.

E-710 Replacement Equipment – Page PRISONS-107

E-720 New Equipment – Page PRISONS-108

Mr. Rexwinkel stated that decision units E-710 and E-720 are necessary to replace equipment that is very old. He pointed out that most of it, except for the serving table and the radios, dates back to 1980. He stated that the toolbox has been requested because the department is attempting to standardize the tools that are on hand at each of the locations, and keep a close inventory on them. These, he noted, are for the convenience of any person going to the facility to repair equipment.

Assemblyman Parks noted that the department had an average of 175 in the camp for FY 2000 when there is a 194-bed capacity. He asked whether this and other facilities could be maintained at full capacity in an effort to save resources from other facilities.

Glen Whorton, Chief, Classification/Planning, Department of Prisons, said the department endeavors to the highest degree possible to keep as many offenders, male or female, at a reduced custody level. He stated that it is the department’s mission to place people at the lowest custody level at which their basic needs can be met and at which their behavior can be controlled. Mr. Whorton said that for the current fiscal year the expectation was that there would be 246 women placed in minimum custody facilities of the department. He pointed out that, as of April 11, 2001, there were 251 women in minimum custody.

Mr. Whorton explained that the inmate population has increased and this means that there will be a corresponding increase in the number of people at minimum-security facilities. He indicated that the department uses an objective classification instrument to help them decide who goes to various custody levels. He pointed out that, at the beginning on April 2001, the custody level at which the department’s instruments say people should be at minimum custody indicated that 43.3 percent of female offenders should be at minimum custody. He noted that 38.8 percent were actually at minimum custody, so the department was relatively close to their target.

Mr. Whorton explained that the difference between these two figures relates to the number of women who have medical complaints. He noted that women have a tendency to have more medical complaints than men, and as a result the department sometimes has difficulty placing them at a reduced custody level. He also stated that some people who have an opportunity to go out and earn an increased level of “good time credits,” possibly shortening their sentence and improving their chances before the parole board, will not avail themselves of that opportunity. He pointed out that these are criminal offenders and who do not “think like we do.” He stated that to some inmates being in the prison in North Las Vegas is preferable to going to one of the camps, and they will manipulate the system so they do not have to go. This, he explained, is not just the case with women, but with men as well.

Mr. Whorton stated that there are more medical-related difficulties at female facilities than at the remote male facilities. He said it is a major issue among himself, his staff, and the classification staff at the women’s prison to identify these people and get them moved out. He stated that, at the beginning of every month, he creates a list from the department’s information system to identify those people who “compute” minimum custody, yet are at some custody level higher than that. Those people need to be looked at every month. He noted that in most cases the problem has been identified and documented, so the review is very quickly done.

Mr. Whorton pointed out that every initial classification is reviewed by his staff, and it is all done at Northern Nevada Correctional Center. He said there has been a decline in the number of women who go to minimum custody. He stated that at one point the department had a higher computed level of minimum custody, and that has declined over the years. He contributed that to some “hardening” of the population. He noted there is a phenomenon that is occurring throughout the United States in which women are becoming involved in more serious offenses. He pointed out there had been a slight change in the eligibility for minimum custody based on Senate Bill (S.B.) 416 of the Sixty-Eighth Session, following which people had longer minimum sentences.

SENATE BILL 416 OF THE SIXTY-EIGHTH SESSION: An act relating to crimes; creating categories of felonies; revising the sentences imposed for felonies; requiring a court to impose a minimum term and a maximum term of imprisonment when sentencing a person who is found guilty of certain felonies; creating a program of probation that is secured by a surety bond; authorizing courts to require certain probationers to participate in an alternative program, treatment or activity as a condition of probation; requiring prisoners to serve the minimum term of imprisonment imposed by their sentence before becoming eligible for parole; prohibiting the commutation of a sentence to death or imprisonment for life without the possibility of parole under certain circumstances; and providing other matters properly relating thereto.

This, Mr. Whorton explained, had a direct effect upon the female population because they are more “low-end offenders.” He noted that situation has since diminished by virtue of the fact that people spend more time in prison, and thus a more solid judgment can be made on the risks and possibilities of release to minimum custody.

Mr. Whorton assured the committee that his department is and has been sensitive to minimum custody since the early 1980s when objective classification was put in place in Nevada specifically to address that issue.

Mr. Parks asked Mr. Whorton to inform the committee about the moving of modular facilities into boot camp operations. He added that he understands eight or nine positions were transferred into another budget.

Mr. Whorton replied that the boot camp was moved into the High Desert State Prison. He said the actual “trailers” were not moved there, but the boot camp occupies wing 8A of the High Desert State Prison. He stated that the staff did transfer there, but they did not transfer in the sense they were placed in the other budget. He said they still remain in the same budget performing the same duties they did at the different locale.

Mr. Whorton stated that the plan for the Department of Prisons for the next biennium is to move that program into the Southern Desert Correctional Center. He pointed out that at the present time there is a specific effort under way to “soften” the population at Southern Desert Correctional Center to make that facility the “program facility” in the southern region. He explained that move was not made initially because that staff was putting into place the youthful offender program that is underway there. The move, he stated, will occur within the next few months.

Mr. Whorton said the staff positions for that program at the Indian Springs Conservation Camp will be abolished in the budget. Those people, he explained, will be absorbed into vacant positions at the Southern Desert Correctional Center. He stated they will continue to operate the program from one of the units in that facility. He noted the director and the assistant director of operations will conduct a wing-by-wing, unit-by-unit review of the entire institution. He said they will come up with a plan for the use and location of programs and types of inmates, to include the integration of a level system into that institution. In this way, he explained, the department will make the most efficient use of that institution and the most efficient use of their staff.

Mr. Whorton said they hear “loud and clear” the message from the Legislature to be thrifty and efficient in the use of resources, and this is an option the department is taking to do that.

Senator Jacobsen asked whether the boot camp can survive as well in the new facility. Mr. Whorton replied that the staff and inmates love the move to the High Desert State Prison. He pointed out that it is a very durable, controllable kind of facility, and anyone would like to be in a nice, new, clean place. He stated that this program and these offenders are an asset to any institution because of the level of control and the heightened expectations of them. He stated that it is their assumption that, not only will the program continue and flourish at the Southern Desert Correctional Center, but it will also have a positive effect on that facility.

Senator Jacobsen expressed pleasure upon hearing that, and acknowledged the challenge the department has.

Senator O’Donnell asked for an explanation of the staff recommendation to reduce category 04 related to the mud closet and the laundry room. He also asked what the mud closet is. Ms. Watson replied that a mud closet is a janitorial closet. She explained that the adjustments for the laundry room and mud closet were because of minor improvements to both of those areas. She pointed out that was considered a one-time expenditure and should be deleted from the base.

Gary L. Ghiggeri, Senate Fiscal Analyst, Fiscal Analysis Division, Legislative Counsel Bureau, stated that the staff wants the committee to clearly understand it is more costly to house female offenders at the Southern Nevada Women’s Correctional Facility than it is to house them at any of the less secure facilities. He explained that if one were to assume that it cost about $50 a day to house a female inmate in the Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) facility, that would compute to approximately $18,000 per year. He pointed out that if that same offender were classified as minimum and housed at a camp the cost would be approximately $6,570 a year. He pointed out that this amounts to about a $12,000 a year difference in the cost of housing those offenders.

Mr. Ghiggeri added that if the camps are not filled to capacity and those inmates are housed at the CCA facility, the state will be paying a higher cost to house them. He stated that some direction would be needed from the subcommittee in the closure of those budgets.

Mr. Ghiggeri also stated that, with respect to the operation of the boot camp program, it is still unclear to legislative staff how the transfer of that program to Southern Desert Correctional Center will operate. He pointed out the program is currently operating with a lieutenant and some additional correctional officers that provide a program of regimented discipline. He stated that the legislative staff is unsure which staff in the Southern Desert Correctional Center’s budget will be utilized to operate that program.

Mr. Ghiggeri added that the transfer of those 60 inmates to the Southern Desert Correctional Center places those inmates in beds that are much more expensive to construct and operate than the beds they are occupying while outside the facility. He stated that legislative staff requires some clarification on those issues prior to the closure of those budgets.

Senator O’Donnell asked, in light of that comment, what the problem is, and whether inmates can be induced to go to the camps. He suggested it is additional “good-time” credits or the opportunity to sleep in a bed or sleeping bag. He stated that if it will save money it may behoove the department to do that.

Mr. Whorton responded that the people who go to the conservation camps do get additional credits. He explained that inmates inside an institution have the potential earnings of 10 days per month for their work, while inmates at a conservation camp may earn as much as 20 days a month. He stated that the conservation camps, especially those for women, are very suitable facilities, and it is not an issue of motivating them with the quality-of-life issue.

Mr. Whorton stated that probably the best thing the prison does is medically identify the individuals to ensure the staff are absolutely correct in identifying persons who are malingering and ship them out to the camps. He stated that he understands the issue of the cost of the Southern Nevada Women’s Correctional facility, which is about $44 a day. He explained that the women’s prison has an emergency capacity threshold of 500, and there were 496 women there on April 11. He pointed out that without the efforts of the Department of Prisons there would have been another 51 there.

Mr. Whorton said they struggle every day with the issue of putting women out on minimum custody. He pointed out he is also meeting today with staff of the executive branch on how to improve the situation.

Senator O’Donnell asked exactly what numbers the legislative staff needs from the Department of Prisons.

Mr. Ghiggeri recalled that during the 1997 session the department had provided information that indicated approximately 45 percent of female offenders were classified for minimum custody. He added that during the 1999 session the department indicated a lower percentage, and noted that when the budget was closed during that session it was closed with a higher percentage of female offenders at minimum custody.

Mr. Ghiggeri stated that the department is again at a lower percentage for minimum custody, and right now it is anticipated that in FY 2002 there will be 28 beds unoccupied at the Jean Conservation Camp and 13 beds unoccupied at the Silver Springs Conservation Camp; and in FY 2003 there will be 16 beds unoccupied at the Jean Conservation Camp and 7 at the Silver Springs Conservation Camp. He suggested that the prison give legislative staff information after they have met with the Executive Branch, indicating whether they have a plan that would allow filling those beds and reducing the number of beds occupied at the CCA facility. That, he pointed out, would save funding.

Mr. Ghiggeri stated, regarding the boot camp, the committee staff would need written information documenting how that program will operate once it is transferred inside the Southern Desert Correctional Center. He said the committee staff is at a loss as to what positions the prison will utilize to operate that program once it is transferred in. He pointed out that if the department deletes six or seven positions that are currently operating that program at the Indian Springs boot camp, based on the staffing pattern that currently exists at the Southern Desert Correctional Center, the committee staff would be at a loss to understand how that program will function once it is transferred inside the Southern Desert Correctional Center.

Senator O’Donnell asked for a verbal report of the plan to accomplish that move, and then to have it followed up with a written report.

Mr. Whorton responded that some of the savings will come from the fact that the staff who supervised the boot camp in hours of darkness will be the same individuals who supervise other inmates in whatever unit they decide to place the program. He pointed out that the department intends to evaluate which staff can be used for supervision of the daylight hours and activities. He said that has not yet been done, and is an effort that remains to be accomplished by the assistant director and himself.

Senator O’Donnell noted that they cannot just close the budget predicated on staffing numbers that Mr. Whorton is not sure will work. He pointed out that the committee does not feel comfortable if the department does not feel comfortable, and noted that the legislative staff does not feel comfortable. He stated that the committee needs some information from the Department of Prisons in terms of how they are going to facilitate that. Until then, he said, they will not close the budget.

Senator Jacobsen indicated to the committee that the kind of clientele the department has to deal with on a daily basis is not ordinary. He stated that it is unfortunate that the committee and the Legislature in total do not have an opportunity to tour every one of these camps to see what their capabilities are and what the work ethics are in those facilities. He said he believes the committee would be impressed. He announced that the committee would have an opportunity on April 25, 2001, to tour the Silver Springs Conservation Camp.

Senator O’Donnell asked whether money had been saved in this account. He indicated concern about the consolidation reversals, and asked whether this will cost more money.

Ms. Watson responded that she had provided a recap sheet that indicated there is not a savings in this account. She said this is primarily because funding for jail meals of $5,772 was left out of The Executive Budget. She stated that it is also because there were maintenance contracts that were not funded in The Executive Budget. She said she believes this is the one budget of the three that did not have a savings.

Senator O’Donnell asked whether the three budgets Ms. Watson is referring to are the Restitution Center, North, Stewart Conservation Camp, and the Pioche Conservation Camp. Ms. Watson said that is correct. Senator O’Donnell asked whether the total cost is $2,043 over and above The Executive Budget. Ms. Watson stated that if that is the figure in the summary, then that is correct. Senator O’Donnell noted that it is not an insurmountable amount of money. He asked whether someone from the budget office could explain whether they have made some adjustments.

Senator O’Donnell questioned whether the budget should be closed with the $4,300 additional cost. He asked if there would be a willingness to make some adjustments that would absorb the $4,300 in costs if the budget is closed in this way.

Deborah L. Reed, Budget Analyst IV, Budget Division, Department of Administration, stated that there will be savings in other budget accounts that will compensate for this.

SENATOR O’DONNELL MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET 101-3723 WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF.

ASSEMBLYMAN PARKS SECONDED THE MOTION.

THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL AND ASSEMBLYWOMEN CHOWNING AND DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

BUDGET CLOSINGS – CONSERVATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES

Environmental Protection Administration – Budget Page CNR-12 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-3173

Michael J. Chapman, Program Analyst, Fiscal Analysis Division, Legislative Counsel Bureau, reviewed the overview, technical adjustments, and decision units outlined on pages 7 through 9 of Closing List 3 (Exhibit C). He pointed out that there is no General Fund money in this account.

Mr. Parks asked for a comment on the request for the additional half-time Deputy Attorney General.

Allen Biaggi, Administrator, Division of Environmental Protection, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, stated that the Division of Environmental Protection (DEP) has been experiencing additional litigation over the last few years. He said that litigation is attributable to a couple of things. One of them, he stated, is a greater degree of complexity in the cases the division is dealing with, especially cases involving environmental cleanup activities. He said a second reason is that there are more lawyers in the state specializing in environmental issues and those lawyers are becoming more aware of these types of cases and are encouraging their clients to initiate litigation activities. He explained that these cases are not necessarily towards the division, but often towards third parties where the contamination is discovered, which brings the division into the activities.

Mr. Biaggi said the division is also finding more recalcitrant people that are refusing to do environmental cleanups. He stated that requires the division to initiate cleanups on its own using state funds. He explained that they then seek reimbursement through the courts for those activities.

Mr. Biaggi stated the division’s largest caseload is mining bankruptcies that are ongoing, because of the diminishing precious metals prices. He pointed out that there are presently 34 such bankruptcies ongoing in Nevada. He stated that because of that his division is overloading the Attorney General’s services. He said that is the reason they are requesting an additional half-time position.

Senator O’Donnell noted the increase in the number of attorneys that are becoming more versed in environmental protection issues, but asked how essential it is to add a half position for that work. He suggested it may be possible to get by without it. He stated the reason he is asking is the committee has to look at all the positions that are being added, and said “We are building a government here.”

Senator O’Donnell predicted that the economic forecast that is due out in May is not going to be good. He said he believes we will be told that we cannot depend on the gaming and sales tax revenues that we have become used to. He pointed out that the California gaming initiatives and the Indian gaming initiatives are going to start to take their toll. He suggested that Nevada will soon be in dire straights because of this.

Mr. Biaggi responded that when the mining situation first occurred Nevada was in dire straights with regard to properly addressing those considerations. He stated that if the state does not go into bankruptcy court and does not place claims and stay on top of that caseload, the state could suffer. He stated this would be the case because of these facilities’ failure to do the reclamation that is necessary, and not managing their fluids acceptably. That, he stated, would cost the state more in cleanup costs, and also require that the state go in and clean them up. He said that is the division’s justification for the additional half-time position.

Mr. Biaggi pointed out that the Division of Environmental Protection is funded primarily with federal funds and fees, and less than half of 1 percent of the agency is General Fund. He explained that the portion that is General Fund does not go toward Attorney General services at all and is used solely for personnel costs. He stated this half-time Deputy Attorney General will be funded through a transfer of federal funds and fee revenue, and will not have an impact on the General Fund. He acknowledged that the division shares the committee’s concern about the budget, and assured the committee that the division would not have requested this position if it did not feel it was going to pay for itself in the long run.

Mr. Chapman pointed out that this budget is funded through cost allocations from the various bureaus within the DEP, so the cost allocations may need to be adjusted upon the closing of the other budgets within the department.

ASSEMBLYMAN PARKS MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET 101-3173 WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF.

SENATOR O’DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION.

THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL AND ASSEMBLYWOMEN CHOWNING AND DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

DEP Waste Mgmt and Federal Facilities – Budget Page CNR-27 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-3187

Mr. Chapman stated there are three bureaus in this budget account. He read the technical adjustments and decision items outlined on pages 11 and 12 of Closing List 3 (Exhibit C).

Senator O’Donnell asked how much money would be involved in separating the accounts in question. Mr. Chapman referred to Budget page CNR-36 and noted the effect of transferring funds out of budget categories 02, 03, 04, 05, 26, and 30. He estimated it would be between $2.6 million and $2.9 million. He pointed out that in the operating category alone there is $1.8 million.

Senator O’Donnell asked how many accounts would be consolidated. Mr. Chapman explained that this proposal is to do the opposite. He stated this would expand the number of categories that now exist, and noted that The Executive Budget expands it by 13 categories compared to the number in FY 2000.

Mr. Chapman clarified that the proposal is to eliminate six current categories and expand them into 13 separate categories. Senator Jacobsen noted that they would be special use categories. Mr. Chapman agreed, and said they would be assigned to specific programs within the bureau.

Senator O’Donnell asked what the down side is of expanding them into 13 different categories.

Mr. Chapman stated that the down side as demonstrated in the closing document (Exhibit C) is that instead of making one adjustment to category 04 for the rent expense adjustment, adjustments will need to be made to 13 different categories. He pointed out the problem is that he cannot tell exactly how much money is set aside for rent because it is spread across 13 categories.

Mr. Biaggi offered to explain the “up side” of the proposal. He pointed out that his division has 16 revenue sources in this budget account, including federal grants, fees, and others. He stated that the division’s federal grants are frequently limited just as the state funding is. He explained this proposal will allow the division to better reflect federal grant requirements and the state requirements. He said it will also allow them to match up better. He stated that the division does not believe that any budgetary control by either the Legislature or the Executive Branch would be compromised by this proposal. He said it would allow the division to better reflect the revenue sources throughout the budget process.

Mr. Beers asked whether the staff of DEP has been to integrated financial system (IFS) training yet. Mr. Biaggi stated that there have been many from his division at IFS training and they are bringing the IFS into the modules they are developing.

Mr. Beers pointed out there is a complete grant subaccounting system that can be attached to every transaction. He explained that he took a crash course in the general ledger (GL) system that is part of the IFS. He explained there is a complete parallel classification system aside from the GL account that can be used for grant accounting. He asked whether the division has looked at that option and rejected it.

Jolaine Johnson, Deputy Administrator, Air, Mining and Water Programs, Division of Environmental Protection, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, said “The division has integrated into some of the IFS programming and is just on the verge of going in for the expenditure type of accounting and do not know how that is going to work.” She stated that the reason the division is pushing forth on setting up these special use categories with GL line items is that, at this point in the budget preparation process, it has not negotiated its federal grants. This process, she explained, will allow them to be able to negotiate those grants and then adjust those budgets in accordance with what the federal government has approved for their spending without having to come back to the Interim Finance Committee (IFC) to simply adjust categories because of that negotiation process. She stated this would allow them to better manage that.

Ms. Johnson pointed out that the division currently tracks budgets by grant and have been doing that for years. She said this proposal should simply streamline that process. She assured the committee the division will take advantage of the IFS capabilities when they are made available. She stated that the division staff has not yet undertaken the training on how to track expenditures through IFS.

Senator Jacobsen asked whether this speaks to accountability and whether this will make the information more accessible to legislative staff.

Lucy D. Zeier, Administrative Services Officer IV, Office of the Director, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, indicated that IFS will provide all levels of details that they have now and may provide more. She said it is her understanding the federal grants section of the IFS has not “rolled out” in its entirety. She stated that is the reason it is hard for the division to speak to exactly how the grants tracking will work. She stated that she would hate to see the division take a step back from these dedicated categories until that system has proven itself.

Ms. Zeier said that the division does have accounts that can provide all the information to whoever needs it. She stated that they already use these unique categories in other budget accounts within the department. She stated that it can provide the committee with all the accountability needed and pointed out that she had heard nothing to the contrary.

Senator O’Donnell pointed out that agencies usually want to go the other way by combining accounts and commingling funds to make their accounting simpler. He stated that this proposal is unique because its purpose is to make the accounting more definitive. He said he agrees with Mr. Beers in that the rents and federal funds will be better deciphered and coordinated, and stated that if Mr. Biaggi is comfortable with it, then he is comfortable also.

Senator O’Donnell said the reason he questioned the proposal is that more often agencies wish to consolidate accounts. He stated that he had no problem with that kind of move either, as long as the amount of money involved is not extravagant. He noted that it costs more to administer a $5,000 fund and have it in three different categories instead of just one. He reiterated that the DEP is moving in the opposite direction and wants to be able to show and account for more detail. He stated he has no problem with this proposal.

Mr. Biaggi stated this will be an easier system for the division in the budget preparation and tracking process. He said this process was recommended by others who have used the system to help with very tracking in complex budget accounts.

Ms. Zeier said that it has been her experience the division is somewhat unique because of the number of federal grants it receives. She stated this system will allow them the emphasis they need on federal grants management while still providing a level of accountability.

Mr. Parks noted that in 13 special use categories the division receives revenue from 16 different revenue sources. However, he stated, the division is asking to consolidate out-of-state travel, instate travel, and other expenses into those 13 special use categories. He pointed out that if he were to look he would be able to see each of the uses, but he would not be able to see how much was spent on the various elements that are within the traditional categories in the state budgets.

Ms. Zeier explained that he would be able to determine that by looking at the general ledgers within the category. She used as an example the special use category for the air quality grant. She explained that if he looked to that category he would see general ledgers that would denote out-of-state travel.

Mr. Biaggi suggested another way to view this to recognize that the division must still track these accounts by general ledger number according to the grant requirements. He said this means they would not lose any detail because it would be hidden, but when dissected it is still accounted by general ledger and by grant.

Senator Jacobsen asked whether the explosion that had occurred near Reno has been cleared up. Mr. Biaggi replied that it has been cleared up. He pointed out that the “Clark Commission” investigated that explosion at Sierra Chemical Company. He said the 1999 Nevada Legislature passed several bills related to better scrutiny of explosives manufacturing facilities. He said the Sierra Chemical Company facility has yet to be rebuilt, so that facility is not being evaluated. He stated it was a tragedy that explosion occurred, but said a lot of good came out of it through better oversight and scrutiny of those types of operations.

Senator Jacobsen asked whether Mr. Biaggi could comment on tire piles. He stated that he did not realize that was such a major problem until today.

Mr. Biaggi recalled that in California tire piles periodically catch fire and they are very difficult to extinguish. He pointed out that they emit very toxic smoke. He stated that the division wants to be sure that sort of thing does not happen in Nevada. He said there are a couple of facilities the division is concerned about, one here in northern Nevada in particular. He stated that they would like to ensure that the tires are either disposed of or used in an appropriate fashion and segregate them so that if a fire does occur it will be a minor fire and not a big one that would cause problems.

Senator Jacobsen asked whether there are any criteria on automotive equipment such as the Bureau of Land management (BLM) and United States Forest Service has.

Mr. Chapman responded that the one criterion that comes to mind is the one put out by the State Motor Pool, which requires replacement after eight years or 80,000 miles.

Senator Jacobsen said it would be helpful if the committee staff compiled a resume of the criteria other states and the federal government have. He suggested this would allow the committee at some future date to have guidelines to follow when considering the recommendations for replacements in the various budgets. Mr. Chapman said the staff will look into that.

SENATOR O’DONNELL MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET 101-3187 AS RECOMMENDED BY THE GOVERNOR, INCLUDING THE SPECIAL USE CATEGORIES, AND WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF.

ASSEMBLYMAN BEERS SECONDED THE MOTION.

Mr. Parks stated that he is concerned on the issue of traditional categories versus the special use categories that the committee has been trying to be consistent with all of the accounting. He recognized that in previous budgets that were discussed the committee has stuck to the traditional categories. He stated that he cannot support the motion to make one exemption. He said he believes there should be a policy that dictates the same for all.

Senator Jacobsen asked what system would be most acceptable to the federal government regarding grants. Mr. Biaggi replied that the special use categories would probably be more acceptable to the federal agencies because it is tracked by grant rather than some more arbitrary divisional unit. He also reiterated that there already are other budget accounts using the special use categories and it is recognized in the state system that this is an acceptable means of accountability in operating a budget. He stated that he does not feel the division is asking for any special dispensation or special situation.

THE MOTION CARRIED ON THE SENATE SIDE. (SENATOR NEAL WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

THE MOTION FAILED ON THE ASSEMBLY SIDE. (ASSEMBLYWOMEN CHOWNING AND DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE. ASSEMBLYMEN PARKS AND PERKINS VOTED NO.)

* * * * *

DEP Mining Regulation/Reclamation – Budget Page CNR-37 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-3188

Mr. Chapman read the overview, technical adjustments, and decision items outlined on pages 13 and 14 of Closing List 3 (Exhibit C).

Senator Jacobsen noted that there was no one present from the mining industry and asked whether they had been informed of the meeting. Mr. Chapman responded that he had not informed them directly, but said that Mr. Biaggi and Ms. Johnson are present to represent them.

Mr. Biaggi stated that his division is in close contact with the industry because it is the fee charged to the industry that supports this program. He explained that they have not spoken specifically about this budget, but pointed out that it is a hold-the-line budget, and no new programs or fees are recommended.

ASSEMBLYMAN PARKS MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET ACCOUNT 101-3188 WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF.

SENATOR O’DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION.

THE MOTION CARRIED. (ASSEMBLYWOMEN CHOWNING AND DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

DEP Water Programs – Budget Page CNR-43 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-3186

Mr. Chapman read the overview, technical adjustments, and decision items outlined on pages 16 and 17 in closing List 3 (Exhibit C).

SENATOR O’DONNELL MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET 101-3186 WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF.

SENATOR NEAL SECONDED THE MOTION

THE MOTION CARRIED. (ASSEMBLYWOMEN CHOWNING AND DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

Wildlife – Budget Page CNR-103 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-4452

Mark Krmpotic, Program Analyst, Legislative Counsel Bureau, reviewed the overview, adjustments, and decision items outlined on pages 19 through 23 of Closing List 3 (Exhibit C).

Senator Jacobsen noted that there are a number of decisions included in this budget. He mentioned funding for a wide area network, public information officer, staff associate engineer, wildlife area technician, program officer, and a dispatcher.

E-300 Maximize Internet & Technology – Page CNR-109

Mr. Krmpotic indicated the committee may wish to direct a Letter of Intent to have the division report quarterly if decision unit E-300 is approved.

SENATOR NEAL MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET ACCOUNT 101-4452 WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF.

ASSEMBLYMAN PARKS SECONDED THE MOTION.

Gary L. Ghiggeri, Senate Fiscal Analyst, Fiscal Analysis Division, Legislative Counsel Bureau, asked whether this motion would include the Letter of Intent to have the division report quarterly to the Interim Finance Committee regarding the status of the licensing and boat registration system project. Senator Neal replied that it would.

Senator Jacobsen stated that Mr. Krmpotic had informed Terry R. Crawforth, Administrator, Division of Wildlife, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, that the committee would be taking up his budget this morning, and Mr. Crawforth indicated when contacted that he had no problems with “what the committee would consider.”

Mr. Parks expressed concern that a number of positions had been added to this budget. He questioned whether deleting renovations would adversely impact the work that any of these positions would be planned to accomplish.

Mr. Krmpotic responded that if the renovation projects under E-275 and some of the projects under E-382 were removed it might justify the elimination of the staff associate engineer, although the agency has indicated that they have a number of backlog projects.

Mr. Krmpotic said the computer network specialist is tied to the expansion of the local area network and the new licensing system. He stated that the public information officer and dispatcher are recommended for existing program activities as is the wildlife area technician at the Steptoe Valley Wildlife Management Area.

R. Michael Turnipseed, P.E., Director, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, stated that he is aware of what some of these positions are for, particularly the associate engineer. He pointed out that the Division of Wildlife gave a Microsoft Power Point presentation to the Subcommittee for capital improvements, and if there is a bill to increase the trout stamp fees by $5 to fund a bond repayment, the associate engineer will be needed to inspect and oversee those refurbishment projects.

Mr. Ghiggeri stated that the Senate Committee on Finance heard S.B. 30 on April 11, 2001, which would establish a separate Department of Wildlife.

SENATE BILL 30: Makes various changes to provisions relating to wildlife. (BDR 45-647)

Mr. Ghiggeri stated this closing would continue this agency as a division of the State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. He said Senator Raggio requested a fiscal note for that separation. Mr. Ghiggeri added that the fiscal note indicated an additional cost of $80,000 for signage changes that would be required if the division became a separate department.

Mr. Ghiggeri recommended the budget be closed as is, and if S.B. 30 progresses the staff would revisit that account and bring it back to the committee.

Senator Jacobsen stated that he did not recall that a final action had been taken on that bill. Mr. Ghiggeri confirmed that was so. He stated that bill is currently exempt so it will not require immediate action by the committee. He stated it is probably pending some amendments that were discussed in the March 11 meeting. He pointed out that ASSEMBLY BILL (A.B.) 291 was also discussed on March 11 in relation to this, and that bill is moving in the Assembly. That bill, he explained, provides for the “predator fee” increase, which is also part of S.B. 30.

ASSEMBLY BILL 291: Imposes additional fee for processing application for game tag for support of programs to control predators and protect wildlife habitat. (BDR 45-160)

The committee returned to the motion to close budget account 101-4452.

THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR O’DONNELL AND ASSEMBLYWOMAN DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

Wildlife Obligated Reserve – Budget Page CNR-118 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-4458

Mr. Krmpotic read the overview, technical adjustments, and decision items outlined on pages 24 and 25 of Closing List 3 (Exhibit C).

ASSEMBLYMAN PARKS MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET 101-4458 WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN CHOWNING SECONDED THE MOTION.

THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR O’DONNELL AND ASSEMBLYWOMAN DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

Wildlife – Boating Program – Budget Page CNR-122 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-4456

Mr. Krmpotic read the overview, technical adjustments, and decision items outlined on pages 26 through 28 of Closing List 3 (Exhibit C). He pointed out that the reference in the first technical adjustment to “Onion Creek Reservoir” should read “Onion Valley Reservoir.”

ASSEMBLYWOMAN CHOWNING MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET 101-4456 WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF.

ASSEMBLYMAN PARKS SECONDED THE MOTION.

THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR O’DONNELL AND ASSEMBLYWOMAN DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

Heil Wild Horse Bequest – Budget Page CNR-170 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 607-4156

Mr. Chapman read the overview, technical adjustments, and decision items on pages 30 and 31 of Closing List 3 (Exhibit C).

Catherine Barcomb, Administrator, Commission for the Preservation of Wild Horses, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, stated that Mr. Chapman’s assessment of the budget is accurate.

Mr. Turnipseed also confirmed that he had no questions concerning the recommendations.

ASSEMBLYMAN MARVEL MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET 607-4156 WITH ADJUSTMENTS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF AND CONTINGENT ON APPROVAL OF A.B. 662.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN CHOWNING SECONDED THE MOTION.

ASSEMBLY BILL 662: Revises provisions relating to authorization for expenditure of money in Heil trust fund for wild horses. (BDR 45-1516)

Mr. Turnipseed explained that A.B. 662 removes a couple of words from an existing statute which does not only allow the principal of the Heil Trust Fund for Wild Horses to be spent below a figure of $900,000 except in an emergency. He explained that A.B 662 would remove the requirement that such spending be exclusively in the case of an emergency.

Senator Neal asked whether that would allow the total amount of money in that fund to be spent. Mr. Turnipseed replied that, if A.B. 662 passes and this committee passes this budget, then the wild horse budget will share fifty-fifty with the BLM to set up a private non-profit foundation to expedite the adoption process to move wild horses off the range. He stated that the BLM has a total of $36,000,000 funding for this year and the next four years to remove 6,500 to 7,500 horses off the range. He pointed out that the bottleneck is the adoption facility. He explained that the purpose of the foundation is to streamline that process and enhance the adoption process so these horses can be moved off the range and into the holding facility, through the adoption process, and out to private ownership.

Senator Neal asked whether this discussion is about spending money from the Heil fund. Mr. Turnipseed replied that is correct.

Senator Neal asked how much money is in the Heil fund now. Mr. Turnipseed said he believes it presently has about $1.1 million or $1.2 million. Senator Neal asked what is considered to be the principal for that fund.

Ms. Barcomb stated that there is currently just under $1.1 million in the fund considered principal. She explained that the agency would spend below the $900,000 over a 2½ year period. She pointed out that they currently operate off the interest on the trust.

Senator Neal said he understands by the explanation of A.B. 662 that the agency can spend below the $900,000, which was previously the checkpoint past which they could not go. He said it suggests that the agency cannot spend the total amount.

Ms. Barcomb stated that under A.B. 662 the agency cannot go below the $900,000 amount without the approval of the Legislature. She pointed out that only the emergency criteria is being removed from the statute.

THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR O’DONNELL AND ASSEMBLYWOMAN DE BRAGA WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

Wildlife Account – Trout Management – Budget Page 131 (Volume 3)

Budget Account 101-4454

Mr. Krmpotic read the overview and decision items outlined on page 29 of Closing List 3 (Exhibit C).

ASSEMBLY BILL 199: Revises provisions governing certain accounts, licenses and stamps administered by division of wildlife of state department of conservation and natural resources. (BDR 45-529)

SENATOR NEAL MOVED TO CLOSE BUDGET 101-4454 AS RECOMMENDED BY THE GOVERNOR, SUBJECT TO STAFF ADJUSTMENTS NECESSARY FOR BOND REDEMPTION PAYMENTS AND TROUT STAMP REVENUES IF A.B. 199 IS APPROVED.

ASSEMBLYMAN PARKS SECONDED THE MOTION.

THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR O’DONNELL AND ASSEMBLYMEN DE BRAGA AND PERKINS WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)

* * * * *

Mrs. Chowning informed the committee that Phoenix, Arizona, has almost entirely eliminated all of its old tires through a process of rubber pavement. She explained that they take all the tires and put them into a huge machine that shreds them and produces material for roads. She explained that it goes into a type of asphalt, which is very effective and very quiet to ride on. She stated that they no longer have a tire problem there and that she was very impressed with their solution.

Mrs. Chowning pointed out that there is a terrible problem in Clark County. She noted that a few years ago near the women’s prison site there was a huge fire. She said that had it gone just a few yards farther it would have met with all of the buried tires and the fire would have “gone on and on” and been extremely dangerous.

Mrs. Chowning expressed appreciation that the $2 fee that has been charged on new tires for quite a few years is finally going to produce good results. Senator Jacobsen suggested it would be appropriate for both Mrs. Chowning and legislative staff to inform Mr. Biaggi of what good use the $2 fee can be put to.

There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 10:31 a.m.

RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:

Bob Williston

Committee Secretary

APPROVED BY:

Senator Lawrence E. Jacobsen, Chairman

DATE:

Assemblyman David R. Parks, Chairman

DATE: