ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE MINUTES

MINUTES OF THE meeting

of the

ASSEMBLY Committee on Education

Seventy-Second Session

March 3, 2003

The Committee on Educationwas called to order at 4:04 p.m., on Monday, March 3, 2003. Chairman Wendell P. Williams presided in Room 3143 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada, and via simultaneous videoconference in Room 4406 of the Grant Sawyer State Office Building, Las Vegas, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Guest List. All exhibits are available and on file at the Research Library of the Legislative Counsel Bureau.

COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:

Mr. Wendell P. Williams, Chairman

Mr. William Horne, Vice Chairman

Mr. Walter Andonov

Mrs. Sharron Angle

Mr. Kelvin Atkinson

Mrs. Vonne Chowning

Mr. Jason Geddes

Mr. Joe Hardy

Mrs. Ellen Koivisto

Mr. Garn Mabey

Mr. Mark Manendo

Mr. Bob McCleary

COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT:

None

GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT:

Assemblywoman Sheila Leslie, District No. 27

STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:

Carol Stonefield, Committee Policy Analyst

Linda Corbett, Committee Manager

Victoria Thompson, Committee Secretary

OTHERS PRESENT:

Charles W. “Chuck” Fulkerson, Director, Office of Veterans’ Services

Steve Mulvenon, Ph.D., Director of Communications, Washoe County School District

Mike Malone, former State Senator

Steve Long, Deputy Executive Director, Nevada Office of Veterans’ Services

Daryl Mobley, Legislative Chairman, Veterans of Foreign Wars

Anne Loring, President, Nevada Association of School Boards

Randy Robison, Nevada Association of School Boards

Karyn Wright, Legislative Representative, Clark County School District

Ron Gutzman, National Executive Committeeman, Department of Nevada, The American Legion

Doug Byington, Legislative Specialist, Nevada Association of School Administrators

Juanita Clark, teacher and grandmother of 12

Ed Gobel, President, Council of Nevada Veterans’ Organizations

Assembly Bill 52: Provides for issuance of standard high school diplomas to certain veterans. (BDR 34-269)

Roll was called, and Chairman Williams requested that Assemblywoman Angle be marked present when she arrived. He then stated that there were two bills on the agenda today. The first one under consideration was Assembly Bill 52. He welcomed Assemblywoman Sheila Leslie, sponsor of the bill.

Ms. Leslie thanked the Chairman and members of the Committee, and introduced herself as the Assembly representative in District No. 27, Reno.

Ms. Leslie explained that A.B. 52 provided for the issuance of high school diplomas to veterans who, due to their military service in World War II, missed their high school graduation. She sponsored the bill at the request of the Office of Veterans’ Services and a local school district, and their representatives were sitting with Ms. Leslie to explain the bill further. She remarked that there were other members of school districts, as well as many veterans and representatives from the State Board of Education, in the audience. Ms. Leslie pointed out that the bill called for the establishment of guidelines, and she also wished to call attention to two “friendly” amendments. The first amendment was presented by the Clark County School District, who suggested that the State Board of Education and the Office of Veterans’ Services establish guidelines, which would be standardized throughout the state. She also emphasized that the State Board of Education had not taken a position on the bill, but they were meeting on Friday to discuss it. She went on to the second amendment, suggested by the Washoe County School District representative, which was to have the act become effective upon passage, instead of July 1, 2003. She said the Washoe County School District representative would explain that further.

Assemblywoman Leslie then informed the members of the Committee that the program, known as “Operation Recognition,” currently existed in various forms in approximately 30 states beginning with Massachusetts in 1999. The opportunity to receive a diploma would be open to all eligible veterans and included those who received a General Education Diploma (GED) or were deceased, and eligible veterans included those who served in WWII between September 16, 1940, and September 30, 1946.

Ms. Leslie expressed her feeling that the bill was an appropriate way to reward valor and correct interrupted schooling for those veterans who sacrificed their education to go to war. She interpreted it as a small but overdue gesture of society’s gratitude for the sacrifice those individuals made in the name of freedom.

Ms. Leslie then volunteered to answer any questions, and stated that testimony would be presented from Mr. Fulkerson of the Office of Veterans’ Services, whom she disclosed was her former father-in-law, and Steve Mulvenon from the Washoe County School District, who had an interesting story to tell of personal experience with that program in another state.

Chairman Williams thanked Ms. Leslie for her comments, and asked the Committee for any questions; there were none.

Chuck Fulkerson, Director of the Office of Veterans’ Services, then spoke on how “Operation Recognition” began, upon the discovery that there were a tremendous number of WWII veterans that had never received a high school diploma. He expounded that the lack of a diploma did not hinder the veterans’ bravery nor denigrate their service to our country during WWII, and these soldiers came back and led productive lives, raised families, and provided the help that built the U.S. into a superpower. He felt that the veterans’ service during WWII helped shape the entire course of history throughout the world. In summary, he made a request on behalf of the Office of Veterans’ Services that the Nevada State Legislature pass the bill, so that eligible WWII veterans would be awarded high school diplomas. He reiterated that it certainly was a small, overdue gesture of gratitude to fellow citizens who gave four to five years out of their lives to ensure that U.S. citizens could enjoy the economic marvel and the freedoms that existed today (Exhibit C).

Chairman Williams thanked Mr. Fulkerson, and acknowledged the next speaker, Steve Mulvenon.

Mr. Mulvenon presented himself as the Director of Communications for the Washoe County School District and stated that he was here speaking on behalf of the District to give their wholehearted and unqualified support to A.B. 52. He expressed his belief that the legislation recognized and honored sacrifices which hundreds, if not thousands, of Nevada young people made in defense of their country during WWII. They heard their nation’s call and responded, leaving high school behind, and many did not return; many who did come back were more interested in getting a job and getting back to normal. It was Mr. Mulvenon’s opinion that high school was in the past for these veterans, because they saw themselves as either too old or too worldly to return to the classroom, so they went through life without a diploma. He felt that filling the void, even though it was more than 50 years late, was the right thing to do, and would be one way for Nevada to thank the veterans for their service to our country. In doing so, Nevada would join at least 24 other states that had the “Operation Recognition” program.

Mr. Mulvenon affirmed that the Washoe County School District would be proud to work alongside the Nevada Office of Veterans’ Services to locate eligible veterans and organize the appropriate ceremonies in the north. He also stated that, if the neighboring school districts were interested, Washoe County School District would be pleased to coordinate a joint ceremony for multiple districts in Reno.

Mr. Mulvenon then went on to relate a personal story about his father-in-law, Karl Berndt. He explained that Mr. Berndt of Kansas left Hoxie High School prior to the end of his junior year in 1942, and was the first Hoxie student drafted to serve in WWII. Mr. Berndt served in the 22^nd General Hospital Unit in New Guinea and the Philippines, and first became an aircraft welder, then a mechanic, upon his return from service in January 1946. He never finished high school.

Two years ago, Mr. Berndt, along with 13 other draftees, was given his diploma that he would have earned if not for his war service. Mr. Mulvenon expressed his regret that he was not at the ceremony, but was moved when his teenage daughter told him she remembered crying that day because she was proud of her grandfather. His daughter also surprised him by commenting that she had enjoyed hearing her grandfather’s war stories; Mr. Mulvenon said most veterans he knew were reluctant to speak about their experiences, and did not want to seem as if they were bragging. Mr. Mulvenon commented that it was one thing to go to the movies or read books, but quite another to look into the eyes of your grandfather as he described treating the wounds of his comrades in the South Pacific. He reiterated that the Washoe County School District would be proud to assist in efforts to pass the bill under consideration, asserting that it was the right thing to do. He did propose one amendment, however; to change the effective date of the bill from “July 1, 2003” to “upon passage.” The reason he gave for the amendment was the continuing decrease in WWII veterans; he had heard that the national average was that 1,000 veterans passed away each day. Mr. Mulvenon gave the Committee Secretary a copy of his remarks, which also contained newspapers articles about Mr. Berndt (Exhibit D). He volunteered to respond to any questions.

Chairman Williams stated that he had several questions. He asked if it was the intent of the school district to present diplomas of veterans who had passed away to their families, who might want to attend the ceremonies to receive those diplomas on their relative’s behalf.

Mr. Mulvenon opined it was his understanding that, in other states and districts, if family members requested that a diploma be issued posthumously, there would be no problem complying with that request.

Chairman Williams recognized Assemblywoman Chowning, who thanked the Chairman and Assemblywoman Leslie for bringing the bill forward, and thanked all veterans for their service to the United States. She queried as to why the bill applied only to WWII veterans.

Mr. Fulkerson replied there was no reason why the veterans of other wars could not be included. Ms. Leslie added that some states had included veterans of other wars than WWII, and it would be the judgment of the Committee to decide that issue. She clarified that she was specifically asked about WWII, so that was what appeared in the bill, but she would accept the Committee’s decision.

Assemblywoman Angle was recognized by the Chairman, and stated that she was curious about how many WWII veterans in Nevada would be affected by this bill.

Mr. Fulkerson responded they did not know the number; they did know that 22,000 Nevada residents served in WWII, but it was uncertain how many came back to Nevada or passed away. It was also unknown how many WWII veterans left high school in other states to serve in the war, and were now retired in Nevada.

Mrs. Angle then revealed that her father-in-law was a WWII veteran who earned his GED and became a barber after the war; her father also served in WWII. She asked how the veterans would know this benefit was available and how they would apply for the diploma.

Mr. Fulkerson agreed that there would have to be a public information program coordinated by his office, the State Board of Education, and the school districts. He believed that if a veteran, widow, or family member produced proof of service in WWII, then a high school diploma should be issued regardless of what high school they were drafted out of. He said he hoped the school district would agree.

Chairman Williams asked for other questions. Assemblyman Andonov reasoned that, as 24 states had implemented “Operation Recognition”, there would be an appropriate way to inform veterans of the benefit. He also expressed his feeling that this was a worthwhile and honorable thing to do in recognition of those who had served our country.

Assemblyman McCleary then informed the Chairman that he needed clarification, and asked if this honored only WWII veterans from Nevada, or those who moved here since WWII.

Mr. Fulkerson answered that the intent of the Office of Veterans’ Services was to honor any veteran of WWII with who requested a high school diploma.

Assemblyman Hardy was then recognized to speak, and he reminded Committee members that he had the privilege of introducing his uncle, who was a veteran, on the Floor of the Assembly. His uncle had dropped out of high school to serve in WWII, and had graduated from high school last year. He was 83 years old, and he told everyone he spoke to that he was an 83-year-old high school graduate. Mr. Hardy noted how good the recognition made his uncle feel, and endorsed the bill with his wholehearted support.

Chairman Williams solicited other questions, and informed Assemblywoman Leslie that if it was not too difficult, he wished to check on extending the benefit to veterans of other wars as well as WWII. He added that his father served both in Korea and WWII, and he did not want any veterans to be missed.

Ms. Leslie exclaimed that she would be delighted if the bill was amended to include all veterans who missed receiving their diploma due to service in a war. She stated for the record that her father was a Korean War veteran, but he did graduate from high school.

Chairman Williams indicated that Ms. Leslie was welcome to remain for the rest of the meeting, and asked for any other testimony.

Karyn Wright, representing the Clark County School District, gave their support on A.B. 52 with amended language. She felt that for continuity of standards, instead of the language in Section 1, number 3, which stated that “Each school district shall, in cooperation with the State Board and the Office of Veterans’ Services, establish guidelines for identifying and issuing standard high school diplomas to persons pursuant to this section,” they proposed that the State Board of Education and the Office of Veterans’ Services establish guidelines for identifying and issuing high school diplomas to certain veterans.

Doug Byington, representing the Nevada Association of School Administrators, requested to go on record in favor of A.B. 52. He stated that many of their members were older veterans and felt that it was right to grant a diploma to those WWII veterans who requested it. Due to family and other responsibilities of returning veterans, a high school diploma was not a priority to some veterans. Mr. Byington mentioned the loss of 1,000 veterans per day, saying he personally felt the loss when his neighbor, who was aboard the USS Tennessee in the Pacific, passed away three months earlier. He emphasized that the greatest gift that could be given to WWII veterans, or veterans of any other war, was their high school diploma (Exhibit E). He also commented that the military no longer accepted applicants who did not have at least a high school diploma or GED.

Chairman Williams then solicited questions from the Committee, recognizing Assemblywoman Chowning.

Mrs. Chowning revealed that her brother was a veteran of the Vietnam War. He entered the Navy under what was called the “Baby Doll” program when he was 17 years old and had not finished high school. He later completed his high school education and received his diploma, but there were others in the Vietnam War who did not obtain their high school diplomas. She thought this should be extended to them as well.

Mr. Byington concurred, but expressed concern regarding the numbers of veterans involved, as the number of WWII veterans would be much smaller than if veterans of other wars were added.

Chairman Williams then welcomed former Senator Malone in Las Vegas.

Mike Malone introduced himself and noted that he served on the Education Committee 18 years ago before serving for 12 years in the Senate, where he retired. He expressed his support for the bill, remarking that he was a veteran of both Korea and Vietnam, having spent 20 years in the Navy. He said the bill contained no fiscal note and he could see no harm in the bill; Section 1, number 2, read “A school district may, upon request, issue a standard high school diploma …,” which Mr. Malone noted gave the school district the right to refuse to issue a diploma. He also observed that there would be guidelines drawn up between the State Board of Education and the Office of Veterans’ Services, which he felt was a good idea, and he encouraged the Committee to pass A.B. 52.

Steve Long, Deputy Executive Director of the Nevada Office of Veterans’ Services, was the next speaker. He mused that he had not planned to speak, but was strongly in favor the bill, particularly with an amendment to cover periods of armed conflict where young men dropped out of high school to save their country. The draft covered the Vietnam era, so he felt that period should be included in the bill.

Chairman Williams inquired if the Committee or anyone else had questions. Juanita Clark, who mentioned that her Assemblyman, Mr. Horne, was at the meeting today, responded that she was speaking as a teacher and a grandmother of 12. She felt very strongly that no one should have their education given to them “carte-blanche,” and emphatically stated that the bill sent the wrong kind of message to students and residents of Nevada.

Ed Gobel spoke next, thanking the Committee for hearing the bill, and verifying that he was President of the Council of Nevada Veterans’ Organizations and C.O. of the Loudon Veterans Center Museum, as well as Southwestern States Regional Director of the Chapel of the Four Chaplains and a lifetime member of the Disabled American Veterans (DAV), and also State Commander of Veterans of the Vietnam War. He informed the Committee that he was here to speak on Resolution 03-006 of the Council of Nevada Veterans’ Organizations passed by the delegates present at a regularly scheduled meeting of the Council. His concern with A.B. 52 was that he felt it ignored the issues that veterans fought for over the last several sessions. He expressed appreciation for the Assembly’s passage of A.B. 404 of the 71^st Session, which would have increased the veterans’ property tax exemption for the first time since 1953. He felt, however, that veterans should only receive benefits which they had earned, and they had the GI Bill as a benefit to return to school. He expounded that other earned benefits for veterans, such as the Veterans’ Home, dental benefits, and health benefits, had not been given the proper attention, and he expressed his desire to focus on those benefits rather than on benefits that veterans had not earned. He said free high school diplomas would send a bad message when those veterans could return to school under the GI Bill. He appreciated the school districts’ support of the Veterans’ Museum and veterans’ history project, but reiterated that the bill should not be supported as veterans should not receive something they did not earn.

Chairman Williams declared that, although A.B. 52 was the bill being presented today, it did not dilute the importance of increasing other benefits for veterans. He remarked that Assemblyman Manendo fought relentlessly to establish the Veterans’ Home in Clark County, as did Mrs. Chowning and other members. He emphasized that, even though the Committee was addressing the high school diploma issue, it did not mean they were not conscious of other veterans’ issues. He also disagreed with Mr. Gobel’s opinion that the veterans did not earn the high school diplomas provided through A.B. 52, stating that the veterans earned the diplomas through their service to their country, and that today’s men and women in the service had more chance to regain their education than their earlier counterparts.

Assemblywoman Angle asked Mr. Gobel if the resolution he mentioned was one stating that his group was not in support of this bill.

Mr. Gobel explained that the Council of Nevada Veterans’ Organizations was a group of veterans’ organizations that had regular meetings every month and passed resolutions by those delegates who attended. The Council unanimously voted to oppose A.B. 52, because they felt that a high school diploma should be earned, and that what the veterans fought for was the right to earn what they sought instead of being given it. He said the GI Bill gave veterans the right to earn a high school diploma, and he was surprised that there were those who were unaware that over 50 percent of the soldiers in Vietnam were draftees. He opined that many of the Vietnam veterans dropped out of high school but went back and completed high school under the GI Bill.

Mrs. Angle asked if there were WWII veterans on Mr. Gobel’s council that voted on the resolution.

Mr. Gobel responded that over three-fourths of them were WWII veterans.

Mrs. Angle inquired as to how many people were on his council.

Mr. Gobel countered that it was not a council, it was a group of veterans’ organizations, and they each sent a delegate plus an alternate from their organization. He verified that, at that meeting, there were over 40 veterans’ organizations represented.

Assemblywoman Angle inquired if that meant there were over 40 veterans that voted for the resolution, and Mr. Gobel agreed. Mrs. Angle asked if they perceived A.B. 52 to be an insult. Mr. Gobel responded that they believed it was an insult because the veterans fought to receive only the benefits they had earned, and they were still not receiving those earned benefits, because other issues were being focused on. He reiterated that the GI Bill gave veterans the money to return to high school and achieve their diploma if they chose to do so.

Mrs. Angle remarked that the same sentiment was heard in Mr. Hardy’s comments, and asked Mr. Gobel if he could send the Committee a copy of his group’s resolution. Mr. Gobel said he would be happy to.

Chairman Williams thanked Mr. Gobel for his testimony, and asked if anyone else in Las Vegas or Carson City wished to testify.

Ron Gutzman introduced himself as speaking for the American Legion. He expressed the American Legion’s support of this bill, and explained that, although there might be American Legion members on the Council of Nevada Veterans’ Organizations, they did not speak for the American Legion, and the Council did not represent the American Legion. The Legion looked on the bill as a national emergency; the veterans were elderly; their high school diplomas were important to them; and the Legion supported the veterans.

Daryl Mobley, Legislative Chairman for Veterans of Foreign Wars, explained that he was a WWII veteran. He admitted that he had the opportunity to use the GI Bill, but felt that the entitlements the veterans had received were paid for in blood. He disputed Mr. Gobel’s opinion that the diplomas were not earned, and stated they were earned by the veterans’ participation in wars that were put before them. He said those veterans asked no questions; their job was to take care of their country. He said he was the official spokesperson for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, and the Council of Nevada Veterans’ Organizations was not.

As there were no more questions, Chairman Williams closed the hearing on Assembly Bill 52 and requested Assemblywoman Leslie to submit the amendments to the Committee within the next few days.

Assembly Bill 175: Provides for appointment of temporary replacement to board of trustees of school district for member who enters active military service. (BDR 34-426)

The Chairman then opened the hearing on Assembly Bill 175. Randy Robison, of the Nevada Association of School Boards, was not scheduled to speak and mentioned that although he saw no one from Pershing County at the meeting and he had not been requested to represent them on behalf of the bill, he would answer any questions, as he had knowledge of the bill. He then introduced the President of the Nevada Association of School Boards, Ms. Anne Loring.

Ms. Loring reported that she was at the meeting to represent the Nevada Association of School Boards, who supported A.B. 175; she stated that it would provide that a board member could be replaced on his or her board until the board member returned from active duty, or the end of their term, whichever came first, and the replacement would have the full benefits and responsibilities of the school board member until the original member returned. Then she related a story that she felt illustrated the importance of passing the bill.

Ms. Loring articulated that, during the previous summer, each member of the Executive Committee was asked to attend three or four board meetings of the school districts around the state. She had the opportunity to attend Pershing County’s School Board meeting, and looked forward to updating the Board on the Association’s activities. When she arrived, four board members were at the table, and at the fifth spot was what they called “the box”. She explained that “the box” was used when a member was away to call in and participate in the meeting. She described hearing Todd Plimpton, the member who had called in, conversing with the other members, and it was only as she was leaving the meeting that the Superintendent informed her that Todd had called from his unit in the Middle East, where it was 4:30 in the morning.

Ms. Loring explained that the bill had two values: one was to men and women who were at war or serving anywhere on active duty, as their work demanded they be focused; the second was that full boards were necessary to accomplish work, and when a board member was absent, it posed significant changes in the dynamics of that board. She requested the Committee’s support of A.B. 175.

Chairman Williams joked that, with the dedication Mr. Plimpton showed, if he did not have a high school diploma, he would have to be given one. Ms. Loring teasingly replied that they would support that also.

Chairman Williams invited questions from the Committee.

Assemblywoman Angle asked how many board members on the 17 school boards throughout the state were on reserve duty.

Ms. Loring responded that they were unsure of the actual numbers, but there were approximately 107 board members throughout the state. She remarked that it was probably just a handful, but that this was a special situation.

Mrs. Angle replied that she was looking for a ballpark figure. She mused that when she served on the board, most members were young enough to serve in the military.

Ms. Loring jokingly reserved her comment.

Mrs. Angle then asked who would appoint the temporary replacement.

Ms. Loring explained that, if the member had already left for active duty, the remaining board members would appoint the temporary replacement; if the board member in question was still serving, he or she could participate in the decision.

Mrs. Angle inquired if the replacement board member would be appointed from the same district as the person he was replacing.

Ms. Loring responded the intention of the law was that the “usual protocols and legal requirements” would apply, such as giving notice, and the qualifications of the replacement. She assumed, if she read the bill correctly, the replacement would come from the same district.

Mrs. Angle asked for clarification that there would be an application process where the replacement would be picked from the applicants, and Ms. Loring assured her that was correct.

Chairman Williams then recognized Assemblyman Horne, who asked if there were also provisions for members who suffered a catastrophic injury and would be out for an extended period of time, and if not, if this provision could be added to the bill, as he felt it encompassed the same rationale as for those called to active duty.

Ms. Loring replied that the provision had not occurred to her group, but they would be amenable to including it.

Chairman Williams asked if there were other questions, but there were none. He closed the hearing on Assembly Bill 175, and asked Assemblyman Atkinson if he would like to introduce his daughter, who attended the meeting.

Mr. Atkinson responded that he would love to introduce her for the third time that day, even though his daughter said it was only the second time. He said her name was Hayley Atkinson, and she was visiting her father while she was on track break from her school in North Las Vegas, where she attended the second grade, to see what her father did in Carson City.

Chairman Williams invited her back, and as there was no further business, adjourned the meeting at 4:57 p.m.

RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:

Victoria Thompson

Committee Secretary

APPROVED BY:

Assemblyman Wendell P. Williams, Chairman

DATE: