MINUTES OF THE
SENATE Committee on Legislative Affairs and Operations
Seventy-second Session
May 6, 2003
The Senate Committee on Legislative Affairs and Operations was called to order by Chairman Maurice E. Washington, at 3:40 p.m., on Tuesday, May 6, 2003, in Room 2144 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. All exhibits are available and on file at the Research Library of the Legislative Counsel Bureau.
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:
Senator Maurice E. Washington, Chairman
Senator Barbara Cegavske, Vice Chairman
Senator William J. Raggio
Senator Raymond D. Rawson
Senator Bernice Mathews
Senator Valerie Wiener
COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT:
Senator Dina Titus (Excused)
GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT:
Joseph (Joe) M. Neal Jr., Clark County Senatorial District No. 4
Michael (Mike) A. Schneider, Clark County Senatorial District No. 11
David R. Parks, Assembly District No. 41
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:
Paul V. Townsend, Legislative Auditor
Robert E. Erickson, Research Director
Brenda J. Erdoes, Legislative Counsel
Johnnie Lorraine Willis, Committee Secretary
OTHERS PRESENT:
Phil Nowak, Chief, Business, Lines, Division of Health Care Financing and Policy, Department of Human Resources
Robert A. Ostrovsky, Lobbyist, Employers Insurance Company of Nevada
Don Jayne, Lobbyist, Nevada Self Insured Association
P. Forrest Thorne, Executive Officer, Board of the Public Employees' Benefits Program
Bonnie L. Parnell, Lobbyist
Joseph Guild, Lobbyist, Nevada Cattlemen's Association
Stephanie D. Licht, Lobbyist, Nevada Woolgrower's Association
Ex-Senator Lawrence E. Jacobsen, Lobbyist, City of Carson City, Douglas County, and Lyon County
Chairman Washington opened the hearing on Senate Concurrent Resolution (S.C.R.) 13.
SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 13: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study concerning economic, medical and societal costs and impacts of obesity in Nevada. (BDR R-25)
Brenda J. Erdoes, Legislative Counsel, said S.C.R. 13 was discussed at the last meeting and an amendment requested. The requested amendment was to have the study performed by the Legislative Committee on Health Care. She said the proposed amendment to S.C.R. 13, Exhibit C, was four pages and replaced the bill as a whole. She explained the whereas clauses are the same as before except for the last one that directs the Legislative Committee on Health Care to conduct the study on obesity. She continued reading the other clauses in Exhibit C.
SENATOR WIENER MOVED TO AMEND AND ADOPT S.C.R. 13 AS AMENDED.
SENATOR CEGAVSKE SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATORS RAGGIO, RAWSON, AND TITUS WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
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Senator Wiener requested the committee send a letter to the Health Division and the Department of Education to request their participation in the study as subcommittee members. She said she would gladly work with staff to help create the letters. Chairman Washington responded, "That would be fine."
Senator Cegavske asked when Senator Wiener was working with staff to create the letters, whether the directive could include the impact of obesity in senior citizen populations. Senator Wiener responded it would be a good idea if the committee agreed, and she would add the Nevada Silver Haired Legislative Forum to the contact list for meetings.
Senator Cegavske commented much of the discussion had been focused on the threat to obese children, but she believed Nevada's senior citizens needed to be included in the study as well.
Chairman Washington closed the hearing on S.C.R. 13 and opened the hearing on Senate Bill (S.B.) 289.
SENATE BILL 289 (1st Reprint): Directs Legislative Commission to appoint subcommittee to study feasibility of establishing State Health Authority to plan for single payer health care system and for expansion of Medicaid program. (BDR S-720)
Joseph (Joe) M. Neal Jr., Clark County Senatorial District No. 4, said S.B. 289 was to appoint a subcommittee to perform a study about a single payer health care system. He said he believed a study would indicate the State could benefit from a single payer system, which would help many uninsured people. He acknowledged the envisioned system would be based on the Canadian model of universal coverage. The system would be comprehensive in regards to care: no copay, minimum of overhead, simplified reimbursement system, and no investment-owned Health Management Organization (HMO) hospital would be involved in the system.
Senator Neal asked the committee to act favorably on this measure.
Chairman Washington informed Senator Neal the committee could only perform three studies for the interim, and asked whether the Senator would consider having the Legislative Committee on Health Care investigate the single payer issue. Senator Neal agreed that might be a good idea. Senator Neal said there was an amendment, Exhibit D, proposed for that purpose, and he had no problem with that solution.
Phil Nowak, Chief, Business Lines, Division of Health Care Financing and Policy, Department of Human Resources, said within the text of the bill there was reference to individuals who would be eligible for Medicaid; however, the Division of Health Care Financing and Policy wanted to point out Nevada Checkup individuals were to be considered, but they might already be covered under the Medicaid program. He said the intent was not to readdress those individuals, but to expand the program to other income groups. Chairman Washington responded the amendment addressed that issue.
SENATOR WIENER MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS S.B. 289.
SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATORS CEGAVSKE AND TITUS WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.)
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Chairman Washington closed the hearing on S.B. 289, and opened the hearing on S.B. 292.
SENATE BILL 292 (1st Reprint): Directs Legislative Commission to appoint subcommittee to study impacts of recent privatization of industrial insurance program. (BDR S-784)
Michael (Mike) A. Schneider, Clark County Senatorial District No. 11, said S.B. 292 would establish an interim subcommittee consisting of six legislators, three from each house, to review the workers' compensation company since it had been privatized.
Senator Schneider told the committee injured workers were being forced to obtain an attorney to get through the workers' compensation systems. He said these injured workers were giving up 30 to 40 percent of their benefits to attorneys because the system had become so complicated. Senator Schneider asserted every injury, no matter the evidence, was being routinely denied, making it necessary for a worker to pay an attorney. He said the system had become very costly, litigious, and was taking an inordinate amount of time to settle each case.
Senator Schneider explained as the Senate Committee on Commerce and Labor was working through the bill, the chairman of the committee indicated Senator Schneider should submit another bill referring the subject to the Senate Committee on Legislative Affairs and Operations to study how injured workers were being affected by the new system.
Senator Schneider said the chairman of the commerce committee was adding more areas to the recommendations for this study every week. He added he thought the study was very important since the workers' compensation system had been privatized.
Senator Schneider indicated the bill was fairly self-explanatory. He said some firemen came to him with a problem. He explained one of the firemen had cancer, which was supposed to be covered according to State law, however, the case has been denied. Senator Schneider revealed all such cases were being routinely denied even though State law should cover that condition. He said in cases of cancer it had clearly been documented cancer was caused by breathing carcinogens which was a known hazard of fire fighting.
Senator Schneider advised it was time to take a hard look at the workers' compensation system.
Robert A. Ostrovsky, Lobbyist, Employers Insurance Company of Nevada (EICON), said EICON had no objection to a study of procedures. He said EICON supported Senator Schneider's efforts to try to find ways to get larger awards to injured workers and to find other ways to compensate legal counsel. He said these issues had been discussed in the Senate Committee on Commerce and Labor.
Mr. Ostrovsky suggested the language should be as broad as possible. He said if there was to be a study, then the company should be able to present other issues not covered by the bill.
Chairman Washington said the last workmens’ compensation study was performed in 1999.
Mr. Ostrovsky conveyed there used to be a standing committee on workmens' compensation, which was eliminated in the last session because EICON became a private company.
Don Jayne, Lobbyist, Nevada Self Insured Association, said Mr. Ostrovsky was correct; there had been a standing committee for a number of years. He said the Nevada Self Insured Association supported S.B. 292, and believed it was appropriate on occasion to review workmens' compensation. He stated Nevada Self Insured Association would also like to see the scope of the bill broadened.
Chairman Washington closed the hearing on S.B. 292, and opened the hearing on Assembly Bill (A.B.) 454.
ASSEMBLY BILL 454 (1st Reprint): Directs Legislative Auditor to conduct performance audit of Public Employees’ Benefits Program. (BDR S-1315)
Paul V. Townsend, Legislative Auditor, said Assemblywoman Christina R. Giunchigliani introduced A.B. 454. He pointed out there had been a study of employee benefits in 1998, although there had been changes in management and the board of governors since that time.
Mr. Townsend indicated the Research Division was familiar with the Public Employees' Benefits Program (PEBP), so there would be a short learning curve for this study. He mentioned one of the problems with the previous study was the claims inventory. He pointed out these reports were often inaccurate. Mr. Townsend recalled in one such incident, the report said 48,000 claims, but when audited, the count was actually 160,000 claims. He explained there were many claims that were not getting paid, which contributed to problems. He acknowledged PEBP had overcome some of the problems, but these were the types of things that would need to be reviewed.
Mr. Townsend said he provided a handout, Exhibit E, which documented the estimated staff and time to complete the audits proposed by legislation. He indicated A.B. 454 clarifies the work to be performed, and sets a time when the audit must be completed. Mr. Townsend said he believed the Audit Division would benefit from the legislative direction in the bill.
Chairman Washington asked whether the auditors would be able to meet the time limit. Mr. Townsend replied, "Yes," he had staff available who worked on the last audit, and would schedule them to meet the time frame.
Senator Wiener asked whether there were two bills on interim studies of the Public Employees' Benefits Program.
P. Forrest Thorne, Executive Officer, Board of the Public Employees' Benefits Program, said Assembly Concurrent Resolution A.C.R. 10 was the other bill on PEBP working its way through the system.
Assembly Concurrent Resolution 10: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of operations of Public Employees’ Benefits Program. (BDR R‑1111)
Mr. Thorne asserted the PEBP and its board supported the audit. He said a fresh set of eyes was always helpful and PEBP continued to improve the system. He voiced the concern whether PEBP could handle a full legislative audit and an interim study at the same time. Mr. Thorne conveyed the board had requested if both bills passed, whether either the study or the audit could be delayed. He said the board believed the focus should be A.C.R. 10 so PEBP could allocate its resources to the best benefit.
Chairman Washington acknowledged Mr. Thorne was requesting the committee wait before taking action on A.B. 454 until it was clear what was happening with A.C.R. 10. Mr. Thorne mentioned the board also asked if both bills passed whether PEBP could work on them consecutively rather than concurrently.
Chairman Washington asked whether A.C.R. 10 had been heard. Mr. Thorne replied it had a hearing where several amendments were proposed, but had not had another hearing.
Senator Raggio asserted PEBP was an important agency and had a difficult task. He said PEBP had been dealing with a lot of problems and if the study and the audit were dumped on them at one time, PEBP would not be able to function. He expressed the committee needed to keep these problems in mind when considering this bill.
Chairman Washington declared his wife was a State employee insured with PEBP.
Senator Wiener asked whether the purposed study committee included an audit component. Mr. Thorne responded in the resolution and amendments proposed, there were five or six items PEBP asked to be added to the study, and there was some overlap with A.B. 454.
Senator Wiener asked whether A.C.R. 10 and A.B. 454 could be combined. Chairman Washington indicated the committee could review the bills and decide whether it was possible or desirable to do so. He said A.B. 454 was to perform an audit and A.C.R. 10 was a performance study.
Chairman Washington said it was his understanding PEBP was requesting the committee set the audit in A.B. 454 for a later time than the study. Mr. Thorne answered, "That is correct."
Bonnie L. Parnell, Lobbyist, said she was speaking on behalf of Nevada's retired non-State employees, and reminded the committee the 1998 audit was performed before changes were made to the program in the 1999 Session, when the agency changed from the Committee on Benefits under the Risk Management Division, to the Public Employees' Benefits Program under the purview of the Governor. She said as a result of the conversion, the board had changed dramatically since its last audit.
Ms. Parnell stressed those who had been involved with the issue of State insurance rates felt it was important to pass both A.B. 454 and A.C.R. 10. She encouraged the committee to pass both bills.
Chairman Washington informed the audience the committee would be hearing the continuing testimony as a subcommittee.
Chairman Washington closed the hearing on A.B. 454, and opened the hearing on A.B. 35.
ASSEMBLY BILL 35 (1st Reprint): Makes various changes concerning Legislative Committee for Local Government Taxes and Finance. (BDR 17-631)
David R. Parks, Assembly District No. 41, said A.B. 35 was one of the recommendations of the Legislative Committee for Local Government Taxes and Finance. He said A.B. 35 makes two changes concerning the structure of the advisory committee to the government taxes and finance committee.
Assemblyman Parks said section 1 of A.B. 35 makes an adjustment to the membership of the advisory committee. He said statutes on the membership of the advisory committee currently direct one member must be a member of the board of trustees of a general improvement district appointed by the Legislative Commission. He pointed out although a member of a general improvement district had always been appointed, an employee of the appointee constantly attended the meetings. He noted the bill changes the directive to allow the Legislative Commission to appoint a representative of a general improvement district to the advisory committee rather than a member of the board.
Assemblyman Parks said sections 2 to 4 of the bill eliminate the subcommittee to study the cost of maintaining highways, roads, and streets in counties and incorporated cities in the State. He said the bill transfers the subcommittee's duties to the advisory committee of the legislative committee.
Assemblyman Parks noted current statutes require the legislative committee to appoint the subcommittee. He commented in recent years the subcommittee had the same members as the advisory committee. He stated although the members of the two committees had been the same, they had met separately and had maintained separate notices and minutes. Assemblyman Parks explained to eliminate unnecessary duplication of effort, the legislative committee voted to eliminate the subcommittee and to require the advisory committee to perform the duties of the subcommittee.
Senator Wiener inquired whether Assemblyman Parks could forecast the savings to the State by eliminating the subcommittee in A.B. 35. Assemblyman Parks replied he believed the savings would be in the area of staff. He affirmed the local governments performing these tasks would continue to do so, but the duties would be consolidated to one agenda and consolidated hearings. He reiterated the savings would be in the area of staff who prepare the agendas, notices, mailings, and minutes for two committees.
Chairman Washington closed the hearing on A.B. 35, and opened the hearing on A.B. 487.
ASSEMBLY BILL 487 (1st Reprint): Enlarges membership of Legislative Committee on Public Lands and provides date for expiration of Committee. (BDR 17-1272)
Joseph Guild, Lobbyist, Nevada Cattlemen's Association, said he would address only one aspect of the bill. He commented the Nevada Cattlemen's Association had no opposition to having a member of the general public serve on the Legislative Committee on Public Lands. He affirmed that was the original idea of the bill; however, section 3 was added to the bill by the Assembly, which abolished the public lands committee on July 1, 2005.
Mr. Guild expressed this committee had been very effective through the years. He said much had been accomplished through the efforts of this committee to foster communication and to defuse potential problems before they got out of hand. He said there was a great amount of public lands within the boundaries of Nevada, especially in Clark County. He explained the public lands committee has made a great effort to provide a forum where opposing sides could talk about issues.
Mr. Guild reiterated the Legislative Committee on Public Lands was an important committee and should not be terminated, as was proposed by A.B. 487.
Chairman Washington asked whether the Assembly would accept an amendment that eliminated the sunset clause in the bill or would it end up going to a conference committee. Mr. Guild responded he thought the amendment was made on the Assembly Floor and believed it would have to go to a conference committee. He said the amendment came from Assemblywoman Giunchigliani and she had been known to add the same kind of sunset clause to other statutory committees in the past.
Chairman Washington asked Mr. Guild whether he would be upset if the membership of the committee was not enlarged. Mr. Guild replied, "No, this bill was not my idea, it was Assemblyman Collins' idea." He indicated he had not discussed the issue with Assemblyman Collins.
Mr. Guild expressed his belief the Legislative Committee on Public Lands had worked effectively, and was balanced between the Assembly and the Senate. He said various representatives of different local governments had also served on the committee over the years.
Stephanie D. Licht, Lobbyist, Nevada Woolgrower's Association, said the Legislative Committee on Public Lands had performed a lot of good. She said she had attended public lands committee meetings in many communities around the State. She stated the public lands committee had held meetings in every major city and large crossroads in the State. She said the committee listened to citizens and brought issues of legislative merit to the legislative body.
Ms. Licht asserted she concurred with Mr. Guild in that if the bill had a timely or untimely demise, it would not hurt anyone's feelings. She reaffirmed the Legislative Committee on Public Lands was very important to rural Nevadans. She emphasized it was good to have someone finding out what was going on with such a great area of the State under the control of non-State entities.
Mr. Guild noted he had probably attended more public lands meetings than anyone else over the last 15 or more years, and wanted to remind the Legislature the committee on public lands was the only contact most rural Nevadans had with their Legislators. He said these people most often did not come to Carson City, but if the public lands committee was holding a meeting in Pahrump, Pioche, Ely, or Eureka, those people attended meetings and talked to their Legislators. Mr. Guild said he believed this committee was an important connection to rural Nevada, whether the Legislator was from rural Nevada, or urban Nevada.
Ex-Senator Lawrence E. Jacobsen, Lobbyist, City of Carson City, Douglas County, and Lyon County, said serving on the public lands committee was one of the best things that had ever happened to him. He stated the committee went to Washington, D.C., every year and visited the departments of land management, forest service, and other departments that affected Nevada. He said these visits allowed Nevada's representatives to become acquainted with those in control, which in turn opened doors to resolutions of problems before they became major problems. Mr. Jacobsen advised the continuing of the Legislative Committee on Public Lands.
Chairman Washington closed the hearing on A.B. 487 and adjourned the meeting at 4:25 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
Johnnie Lorraine Willis,
Committee Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Senator Maurice E. Washington, Chairman
DATE: