MINUTES OF THE meeting
of the
ASSEMBLY Committee on Natural Resources, Agriculture, and Mining
Seventy-Second Session
March 24, 2003
The Committee on Natural Resources, Agriculture, and Miningwas called to order at 1:55 p.m., on Monday, March 24, 2003. Chairman Tom Collins presided in Room 3161 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Guest List. All exhibits are available and on file at the Research Library of the Legislative Counsel Bureau.
Note: These minutes are compiled in the modified verbatim style. Bracketed material indicates language used to clarify and further describe testimony. Actions of the Committee are presented in the traditional legislative style.
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mr. Tom Collins, Chairman
Mr. Jerry D. Claborn, Vice Chairman
Mr. Kelvin Atkinson
Mr. John C. Carpenter
Mr. Chad Christensen
Mr. Marcus Conklin
Mr. Jason Geddes
Mr. Pete Goicoechea
Mr. John Marvel
Mr. Bob McCleary
Mr. Harry Mortenson
Ms. Genie Ohrenschall
COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT:
None
GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT:
None
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT:
Linda Eissmann, Committee Policy Analyst
Erin Channell, Committee Secretary
OTHERS PRESENT:
Heather Dye, Executive Secretary, Nevada FFA Foundation
Morgan Tucker, Former FFA State Secretary, Nevada Future Farmers of America
Jim Barbee, Agriculture Education Consultant, Nevada Department of Education
Lauren Forbus, Sierra Nevada Chapter, Reno, Nevada Future Farmers of America
Jim Alexander, resident, Carson City; member Clear Creek Road Owners Association
Andy Rice, Chairman, Dias con Cristo Christian Organization, Nevada
Lawrence Jacobsen, citizen, Douglas County
Gary Murphy, resident, Carson City
Doug Busselman, Executive Vice President, Nevada Farm Bureau Federation
Jim Fry, CWCP, CPL, Deputy Risk Manager, Risk Management Division, Nevada Department of Administration
Pam Wilcox, Administrator, State Lands Registrar, Division of State Lands, Division of Conservation Districts, Nevada Department of Conservation and Natural Resources
Mike Meizel, Administrator, Buildings and Grounds Division, Nevada Department of Administration
Mike Turnipseed, Director, Nevada Department of Conservation and Natural Resources
Mike Patterson, Chairman, Dias con Cristo Christian Organization, Nevada
Chairman Collins:
[Called the Natural Resources, Agriculture, and Mining Committee to order.] We’ll start as a Subcommittee until we get enough members to have a quorum. We have a quorum, go ahead and call the roll. [Roll was called.] We’ve got a quorum; we’ll start the meeting. First, I’d like to apologize for being late. As you know, we’re under this deadline that the voters chose for us to be under; bills had to be done today or not done, so we were on the Floor Session longer than we usually are at this time of the year, except on this date. Normally before this meeting starts on Monday, we have a meeting with the Vice Chair, the Chair, research staff, and the committee manager to schedule the rest of the bills we’ve gotten. We just got hit with a few of them today, so we’ll just schedule those as we can, later. Let’s start with our first presentation, which is my bill, A.B. 371. [Chairman Collins turned the meeting over to Vice Chairman Claborn.]
Assembly Bill 371: Requires State Land Registrar to convey certain land to Nevada FFA Foundation. (BDR S-773)
Assemblyman Tom Collins, Clark County District No. 1:
I am the Chairman of this Committee and sponsor of A.B. 371, which is an excellent piece of legislation. Since we’re on the World Wide Web, I’ll be polite, or try to. The State of Nevada is spending about a quarter of a million dollars a year, which is not enough to take care of a facility. Since they’re not taking care of it right, and because it could be put to better use by being used and run by a private organization, association, or nonprofit, when approved, the facility would be able to reach and access financing, grants, and funding that the state has not been able to do. The provision would be to turn the Clear Creek Youth Camp over to the FFA Foundation (Future Farmers of America). That’s the proposal of the bill.
I understand that we want to expand the use of the facility. There will be some people speaking about those who have been using it for many years. They can probably tell you how it’s changed from being a nice place to not so much fun, but it is still located in the right location. You’ll probably hear about not needing the entire property, so there could be an easement for an on-ramp and off-ramp for the Highway Department and a road for somebody else. Outside of that, the rest of the property would go to the FFA. With that, I’d like to turn the time over to Ms. Dye and Mr. Barbee to do their presentation on this for us. As you’ll see – I hope she’ll have some pictures – how many of you have been out there? Some more folks need to go out there and see that a whole lot could be done to make that better and more useful. On that, I’ll turn it over to these folks and rejoin you.
Heather Dye, Executive Secretary, Nevada FFA Foundation:
[Introduced herself] I would like to describe the purpose of the Nevada FFA Foundation. It is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that began in 1975. The whole purpose of the Foundation is to support and create more opportunities for Nevada agriculture education students. With that, that is how we became with the Clear Creek Youth facility. One of our past Board members, almost two years ago, started looking into a spot that we could create a facility that would be home for the Nevada FFA Foundation as well as agriculture education, and create more opportunities for other youth throughout Nevada and other groups as well.
[Heather Dye] They first started looking into finding, maybe, some land that could be donated, and then look into some grants and other foundations to build a camp. This is nothing new; other state foundations have been doing the same thing and it has generated a profit center for agriculture education in their states. With this, and this discussion and research, we found out that the Clear Creek Youth Facility might be an option. So we did some more research and immediately submitted a proposal to Buildings and Grounds (Buildings and Grounds Division, Nevada Department of Administration). We heard that there possibly would be an RFP (request for proposals) coming out with that.
We waited and waited. To back it up, we also met with Assemblyman Collins to put in this bill that would gift the Camp (Clear Creak Youth Camp) to the Nevada FFA Foundation (Future Farmers of America). In November of 2002 the RFP came out and we put in our proposal. We were awarded the RFP and then went into negotiations. The main sticking point of negotiations was the length of the lease. Originally, the RFP stated that they would lease it to us for 10 years with another 10-year option. The Foundation Board was hesitant on this and decided they wanted a 50-year lease or nothing.
The reason for the 50 years is it opens us up to building other foundations or grants for us for improving the facility and maintenance. We’re also worried about putting money and time into this project and then maybe the state wanted it back after that 10 years; we’re finally getting it going and getting it where we want it to be, then it could all disappear. That was a concern. After this 50-year lease request, Mr. Meizel met with the Governor to ask what he wanted to do with that. Because of the financial state of Nevada at that time, he said to try to sell the property. Therefore, the RFP process ended. It’s only been about two weeks ago, so that was why we’re continuing to pursue this bill draft for Clear Creek.
To also give you a little bit of history about the facility, it was built in the 1960s as a federal Job Corps Camp. Over 200 people lived and worked on it. In 1970 it was turned over to the State of Nevada and in 1971 it became available to the public. Youth camps, as well as religious and civic groups, any kind of groups, have used it since, based on the information we’ve received from the RFP budgets. In 1992, over $140,000 was put into the Camp; that doesn’t include salary. In 2001, $85,000 was put into it. Looking at what we understand from the RFP budget that we received, this money is subtracted from the yearly expenses, and whatever the remainder amount of money that’s left is divided by the usage for that year, and that determines the next year’s fee for overnight usage.
[Heather Dye] It’s a break-even process as it has been used over the years. When the camp was originally begun and open to the public, the records show that there were 15,000 overnight users per year. Based on the last 10-year average, there have been 5,800 overnight users, so you can see the usage has definitely decreased. I put together this PowerPoint Presentation to show you what the condition of the camp is at this point, and some of the things that we are looking at doing with it with our students.
[Heather Dye: PowerPoint Presentation of photographs of Clear Creek Youth Camp. Ms. Dye referred to each photograph in turn while she presented commentary. The photographs were not supplied as exhibits.] This photograph is located about 15 minutes from Carson City, on Old Clear Creek Road. This is the cafeteria and you can see there on the left, at one point this was landscaped. Right now it’s weeds and pine needles. This picture doesn’t show it the best but some of the rockwork and cement has definitely decayed and that’s an area we would have to go in and improve on. This picture also doesn’t show as well that some of the windows are broken and those are the type of repairs that we would need to do.
This photograph is one of seven dormitories; they can hold 240 students in the facility. You can see this winter has been rough on the camp. The roof is going to need to be repaired. Also, the tree that you see has broken; it hit one of the transformers and knocked out power, and has been a huge cost to the state this last year. This is the education building; you can see some of plants and shrubs there. At one time, it was landscaped. Our Nevada Agriculture Teachers Association has agreed that, as part of their required community service and their agriculture education programs, each year they would bring their students during the summertime, and work on some of this facility on fire safety and landscaping. This is all hands-on learning that we require and that they would be able to do at this facility.
This is a photograph of cement work that was done originally. You can see it’s decayed and starting to fall apart. All of this we would have to put work into. This is one of the side entrances of the dorm. You can see it’s been reinforced, but still needs a little bit more work and paint. Another one of the roofing problems that the state, or ourselves if we acquire it, will have to look into. This is the main entrance into one of the dorms. You can see there’s been some leaking of the overhang that’s attached to the main building and is starting to pull apart. This isn’t the only one that’s starting to do this. This is the top view of that same image. More roofing problems there, pulling apart from the main building.
[Heather Dye: PowerPoint Presentation of photographs of Clear Creek Youth Camp. Ms. Dye referred to each photograph in turn while she presented commentary. The photographs were not supplied as exhibits.] This photograph is of the basketball and tennis courts, at one point very functional. Now, we’re going to have to repave those, if we were to obtain it, and also clear some of the brush. That’s probably going to be one of the first things that we would have to do. It is just a fire hazard that’s up there. There’s a lot of brush, growth, and pine needles that’ll have to be cleared. This is some cement that’s going up to the second gym, the original gym on this place was burned down and this was the second gym. You can see more work and brush cleanup is going to need to be done.
This photograph is of the ceiling of the gymnasium. You can see the insulation is starting to fall. There have been some problems in the past where it has leaked from the ceiling. This is another area that needs to be improved on. On the gymnasium floor, you can see where it’s starting to peel up. If we were to have sports camps, which is an area that we look at for more opportunity, that we’d definitely have to put in a hardwood floor and replace the existing one that’s there.
You can see in this photograph some of the dormitories. It is a gorgeous site, and just needs a little brush cleanup. More roofing problems. You can see, once again, cement there that just needed some repairs; and there are drainage problems as well. This is what the area looks like and the cleanup that would need to be done. Some of the windows I had mentioned before need to be replaced. This is a decayed cement sidewalk. This is probably the average for the ceilings that will need to be repaired as well. Some of the insides, as far as the drapes and things like that, will be replaced.
There’s definitely some molding missing here and there in this photograph that hasn’t been replaced that we’d have to do if we were to obtain it. In some of the bathrooms, there’s definitely some bathroom work. I know the boy’s bathroom in the gymnasium is nonfunctional at this point and will have to be redone. There are fire hydrants and things that are available; I think it’s been hit at one point and must be repaired. More cement work. These are three trailer homes that are on there. One has already been condemned. If we were to take over, this is something we would also have to spend money on taking away. The three trailers, based on having students there, and the youth groups that we’d want to have there, this is something, a liability reason, we wouldn’t want to have outside people renting the facilities or the homes, because of the liability reasons.
[Heather Dye] That’s the end of the slide show. You can see what this is. I know the State’s talking about selling the facility. As you can see, there’s a lot of work that needs to be done on it. We realize that too. Coming here with this bill and working with Assemblyman Collins, asking for one more shot to make it what it was originally put in for, a youth facility for students as well as other groups. Part of the bill that I think is important, and the whole Foundation [Future Farmers of America Foundation] feels is important, that if when we make a go of this and for whatever reason it may not happen, that if the title were to ever leave the Nevada FFA Foundation, it would revert back to the state, so that if this works and down the road I or some of the other people involved presently aren’t here, it’s still going to be providing opportunities for Nevada’s youth, and it has that option in it. Thank you for your time.
Morgan Tucker, Former FFA State Secretary, Nevada Future Farmers of America:
[Introduced himself] Ms. Dye has given us a lot of pictures and ideas on what can be used for this facility. I think one thing she might not have touched on as much is the FFA Foundation itself. Nevada FFA Foundation is the biggest contributor to Nevada FFA [Future Farmers of America] and the students’ success. Right now, there are 1400 members in the state of Nevada, which puts us in the bottom 10 percent for state membership in the rest of the United States. This year I went down to the Las Vegas area, the fasted growing school district in America, and visited with the lone chapter down there, which has 25 FFA members.
In the Reno area, there are about 50 members in all of the schools. At the same time, FFA gives such great opportunities to students. I wouldn’t be sitting in front of you if it hadn’t been for FFA right now. I probably wouldn’t be in college if it hadn’t been for FFA. I don’t know what I’d be doing, but I know it wouldn’t be either of those. The opportunities FFA offers, the only reason they’re limited is funds. With this Clear Creek facility, not only could we take it and raise funds for the Nevada FFA Foundation, at the same time, with those funds, we get to offer students the extra opportunities that everyone else has.
We can make our state one of the bigger states in membership in the nation. Right now, Texas has almost 100,000 members; it’s because they have funding. They have ways of getting dollars. We depend on districts to fund our agriculture programs. As everybody knows, the economy in Nevada is not in the greatest state right now, and we are losing a lot of funding. The first programs to be cut are the ag programs and the art programs. It’s a shame that ag has to be cut like that because it’s such a great thing, and so many people get opportunities to learn how to speak, learn how to come before you and clearly put forward information so you can understand how we are working with the organization.
[Morgan Tucker] If it hadn’t been for FFA, I don’t know if I could have come here and sat in front of you and talked. Right now, our lone concern is we don’t have enough funding to keep some of these ag programs afloat. I think that’s the biggest problem right now and if we had a facility such as Clear Creek (Clear Creek Youth Camp), something where we could go ahead and make some money off of it, but not so much to make a profit for our Foundation but instead to turn it back over to students so they have the opportunity to learn speaking skills, learn how to come before somebody and give an interview. All these things are important in everyday life, and important as job skills for the future. These are some of the main reasons I feel it’s a great thing for the Nevada FFA Foundation to receive this camp.
The other thing is, Nevada FFA is a different organization from most of the others that you would see. It’s not an extracurricular activity such as football or sports because it forces you to take what you learn in the classroom and put it into everyday life through what we call SAEs, which are supervised agricultural experience programs. My SAE in high school was honey production. I had 35 hives of bees and I would go out every day and take honey off of it. What I’d do in the classroom, between working with the bees, was I’d take on projects where I’d learn how to make my SAE more profitable, more productive, so I could get higher yields. That’s the great thing about FFA, you take classroom instruction and you can put it straight into something that you want to be doing every day.
I think this is why the Nevada FFA Foundation should be the leader in having the opportunity to take over a camp like this. It just gives the students such a greater opportunity to take – such better opportunities for the future.
Jim Barbee, Agriculture Education Consultant, Nevada Department of Education:
[Introduced himself] I am a standing member of the Nevada FFA Foundation. The few comments, and I’ll be very brief, that I have would refer to Exhibit C that we passed around. The first page is an example of some of the increased level of marketing that we would like to see happening with the facilities, once we obtained it. I feel that’s one of the main problems that the Camp has had; traditionally there hasn’t been a lot of marketing. A lot of folks are not aware that the facilities are up there. I am a graduate of Douglas High School and have lived in this area since 1985 and wasn’t aware of this facility up until a year and a half ago. Every time I drove to Carson City I drove by it.
[Jim Barbee] We’re trying to increase the marketing and the Web address on the bottom here is hidden. It is not out on the regular Web, but that’s where you can reference it. That gives you an idea of what our plans are in great detail if you have time to reference that.
In addition, the follow-up paperwork that you’ve been provided with is part of the original proposal that was presented a little over a year ago to Mr. Meizel at Buildings and Grounds (Buildings and Grounds Division, Nevada Department of Administration). In the original proposal, as with each proposal that has been submitted since we started on this project, we have been focusing on the 50‑year concept and idea. That is not anything that we have changed as of late or brought in at the last minute. That’s been our proposal since day one. That all comes back to the importance of being able to receive private funds.
An example of that is the Reynolds Foundation; the minimum qualification, and they spend a tremendous amount of money on these kinds of projects in Nevada, you have to have a minimum of a 50-year lease to make that happen. If you’re going to put $2 million into a project, they want to know that the money is going to be there for the long haul, representing what they approved it for. That’s the security making that happen. Through deed ownership, that just gives us that much of a stronger footing to make sure that we’re able to locate the funds to improve this facility and to make it something good for all of Nevada. That was the original intent when the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp) was created, and that’s what we want to maintain.
We’re basically asking for one shot, one opportunity, at this. If it is not successful, it is clearly written into the bill draft what would happen to that property. At that point the sale option would be very viable, but we would specifically like to request that opportunity to provide some leadership to make this good for all Nevada citizens.
Assemblyman Geddes:
I have a question going through the financial proposal that was there. I saw that the sports marketing was a big part of the income. It looked like it was a net of about $120,000. If that didn’t take off, would you be running in the hole for a period of time or would that just delay construction upgrades?
Jim Barbee:
Yes, that would delay. That’s where that would fall because, just like any business, we’d have to cover our major expenditure outlays during that year’s time period, and that would be the first thing that would be covered. However, we have done quite a bit of research on this, including calling coaches associations in Nevada, as well as in California. One of the top female basketball coaches in Nevada is in Elko High School. She is one of the folks who signed off on the original. I apologize that I don’t have those supporting letters here; we’ll try to get those if needed. They signed off that they are very much in support of improving that facility and making that an option for Nevada youth to have those Nevada sports camps. There are just not that many opportunities for students to be in an enclosed environment, in terms of the cabins, and have the facilities to be able to have those kinds of sports camps.
[Jim Barbee] Those numbers are also based on about $250 charge or fee per student to make that happen. That’s half of the going average fee. We wrote this budget with the intent of “low outcome, high output.” We inflated our expenses, decreased our income, to make sure that this fits. This is a gamble for us, too. We wanted to be very sure that this completely works. As you can notice on the top of that page (Exhibit C) is a six-year extension, or plan, that money at the very top is to carry forward from each previous year, and then that money is then put back into those capital improvements that we’re trying to make on the facility.
Assemblyman Geddes:
That answers that question. As the other part of it, I thought I was clear but now I’m not so sure, if all of the money generated from the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp) would stay in the Camp for improvements or would certain money go out to the Foundation for other activities?
Jim Barbee:
In the initial years, in the beginning years, a lot of that money would have to go back into the Camp so that we could increase usage. There’s no way that we feel we can steadily increase usage without the landscaping, basic cleanup, and the basic building maintenance that has to be done. All of those things have to come in on the forefront just so that we can increase the marketing potential for the property. Once we’ve brought it up to the level that we feel is important, then that would be maintained, and the property would then be utilized as creating a profit for agriculture education.
Assemblyman Goicoechea:
I know it’s not really part of A.B. 371, but I need to ask it. What is the appraised value? Do you have any idea what kind of dollars we are talking about or is the state looking at on the sale?
Jim Barbee:
I’m not familiar with that, but I think there are some folks here from the State that are either running those numbers or have those numbers ready.
Assemblyman Goicoechea:
I realize it doesn’t have any bearing because there is no actual transfer, but I was just curious.
Assemblyman Collins:
I would just have one request. Could someone just keep rolling through the pictures, showing the condition that we as Nevadans have left that park in? This thing is “out of sight, out of mind.” It’s up the road a little ways in the canyon, and a lot of people don’t even know it’s there obviously. I’d like this Committee, with your indulgence, Vice Chairman Claborn, if it’s possible to just see what kind of shape – some of you have been employed in that park, seeing how bad it is. But I just want you to see what kind of shape that Nevada – We’re supposed to be proud of our state, and if you look at some of the conditions of this facility – If it was private sector, it would be condemned, I think.
Vice Chairman Claborn:
I think you’re absolutely right; it does look kind of dilapidated. Thank you, Ms. Dye, to you and your committee for coming here and giving a beautiful presentation. Now we’ll take the supporters of A.B. 371 before we take any others. If you folks who support this bill want to come up here in threes, we would be more than happy to listen to your presentations or any words of wit.
Lauren Forbus, Sierra Nevada Chapter, Reno, Nevada Future Farmers of America:
[Introduced herself] I’m definitely for this proposal that we have today. I feel that if the State would give this to the FFA organization, we would fully take the responsibility of the upkeep and maintenance of this. You saw how poor the facility is. I feel that we need to emphasize all the classes and all the opportunities we have in FFA. We have a landscaping program where we can go up there and we can use the skills learned in the classroom to take it and improve upon this facility with the knowledge that we’ve learned already.
We have welding classes that can go up there and help repair or improve upon the bunks and the other welding facilities. We have so many different classes and things that we’ve learned that we can apply to this facility. In the future, we can send our kids to this facility and say, “I fixed this; I made it possible for you to come up here so you can learn and apply this to your life.” I definitely want to emphasize that we’re going to take care of this, we’re going to make sure. It’s not for our benefit. It’s for the future, for the youth of Nevada to benefit from this.
[Lauren Forbus] The members are not going to be able to see the end results, directly. I’m a senior in high school, and I’m not going to directly see what the benefit of it is. But I know the future FFA is going to be able to use this, and the other organizations in Nevada are going to be able to use this property for their benefit. They’re going to be able to come up here and learn, meet new friends, and start different avenues of life through this opportunity that we have, but it’s not possible if we don’t have this facility.
I’ve been to a leadership camp up at Lake Tahoe and there are so many things that I learned and so many different memories I’ll have. With that facility, there was a high price we had to pay to go up there. With this facility, it would be ours, so we’re going to be able to save our own money through going to this camp. I just want to stress our ability to restore this facility. What other organization will fully restore this so that others can use it in the future?
Jim Alexander, resident, Carson City; member Clear Creek Road Owners Association:
[Introduced himself] I reside at 8593 Jeffrey Pine Lane. My family and I own properties that are off the southwest corner of the camp. I’m also speaking on behalf of my neighbors; there are four other properties that either abut the camp or are adjacent to Clear Creek Road, on the upper portion of Clear Creek Canyon in Douglas County.
My neighbors and I definitely support A.B. 371, quitclaiming the State Lands (Division of State Lands) fee interest in this gross 120-acre property of the Clear Creek Youth Camp to the Nevada FFA (Future Farmers of America) Foundation. I’d like to give you a brief history of access to this property. You’ve heard the camp was constructed by the Job Corps during the early 1960s. On March 1, 1960, and July 7, 1966, the right-of-way to old U.S. Highway 50, which is now called Clear Creek Road, was abandoned back to the original property owners. On June 24, 1966, State Lands and the U.S. Forest Service entered into a cooperative agreement to place a six-inch sewer line down Clear Creek Road, from the camp, to connect to the Carson City sewer near Highway 395.
That line is in existence and the lift stations were recently upgraded by a federal contract, all along the length of the road. The pipe, however, remains the same. The state leased a portion of the facility to ROP (Right of Passage) during the late 1990s until November of 2001 when ROP moved out. The next week, State Lands (Division of State Lands) stopped plowing Clear Creek Road, thereby making access during the winter months pretty dicey. Right of Passage contracted from the state to use those facilities for an education facility, very similar to what might be proposed by the FFA. The classrooms were improved, the facility was improved, and they maintained several buildings during the period of their lease. This now reverts back to the state.
[Jim Alexander] I gave to you a development agreement (Exhibit D), which was entered into January 28, 2003, between NDOT (Nevada Department of Transportation) and a private developer to propose the creation of an underpass at the northwest side of the Youth Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp) where it intersects the current U.S. Highway 50. I’m not associated with the developer; however, I’m highly concerned that if the Camp is transferred to the FFA (Future Farmers of America), that the State do all possible to transfer to the FFA, as well as the fee simple to the camp. They should transfer the rights to the off-site sewer facilities and also any other rights as may adhere to the Camp’s administration at this time.
There is no legal access up Clear Creek Road, at the present time, to the Camp. The road has been abandoned; that 4.8 miles from the bottom of the road to the Camp is not maintained by any public agency or the State. The State did do a right-of-way survey on it a few years ago with the idea of setting up a right‑of-way sign over by all the residents up and down the road. That was begun but was never completed. At this time, the reason for my bringing up these points is that you may hear that this Camp has a certain appraised value. I think it will fall someplace, from what I hear from State Lands (Division of State Lands), between the $2 million to $3 million level, as used as private lands for possible development.
However, I maintain that the highest and best use of the land for the people of the state of Nevada is to give it to a youth group, such as the FFA, who can bring in private monies to put money into this camp and upgrade it. It’s been loosely said they’re short about $1.5 million for the repairs right now. If you deduct the fact that it has no maintainable public access at the present and a few other things about the infrastructure of the Camp, I question the fact whether the appraisals could run very high on this Camp at all. There are a number of youth groups that would like to use the Camp, the Girl Scouts and other people that looked at your RFP (Request for Proposals), but the condition of the Camp has gone downhill extremely in the last eight years.
I believe we could use this property as a youth camp at the direction of the FFA. They could bring in monies to create a state learning center here for youth that could be used year round. In order to do that, they would have to maintain some cash flow to get the Camp off its feet and get it running. I am at present also actively involved in the redesign of the Carson City Fairgrounds, at the foot of Clear Creek Road. We’re redoing some facilities down there with the emphasis for the youth of Nevada to use it for a rodeo center, also for FFA; 4-H is also active with our group, working on the redesign of that fairground. We are moving forward with that, at the present time. It would provide a very hand and glove relationship, if the FFA were to have the facility up the road.
[Jim Alexander] In closing, I have a great deal of knowledge of all the public documents, all the owners. PBS&J, an engineering consulting firm, was commissioned by NDOT [Nevada Department of Transportation] this past year for a $400,000 study of the Clear Creek Watershed. That study is complete now and in the hands of NDOT with recommendations as to the expenditure of the sum of $3 million, $500,000 per year, along the U.S. Highway 50 right-of-way, which starts below the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp) and goes past it up to Spooner Summit. There is work needed on the west end of the camp; that work is on hold at this time, awaiting the outcome of the surveying of the right-of way and selection of easements for passage into the Youth Camp from the proposed underpass. If that were done, it is my belief that the Camp would become much more usable on a year round basis for anyone who might want to use it. The cost of running said camp would drop appreciably, as you wouldn’t have to maintain access through Clear Creek Road anymore.
Assemblyman Goicoechea:
I’m very unclear how you can have the camp there without a public access of some kind.
Jim Alexander:
In all fairness, it occurred by a fluke. In the State of Nevada back in 1927 to 1931, when Highway 50 was originally constructed, there was no real need by the federal government to grant, get, or obtain an easement from the ranchers whose ranches the road went through. In fact, in 1960, the law of the State of Nevada was changed to require the easements that there were originally, which only existed in Ormsby County. Oddly enough, in our portion of the Camp, the access for the road turns through Douglas County, goes up into the Camp, and there it stops at the present time.
The line of the south boundary of the Camp is the Carson City-Douglas County line. Therein has been the greatest Achilles’ heel of trying to get any help to maintain the road because it passes through two counties. It goes through Douglas County, back into Carson, and winds up in Carson County, down at the bottom. What’s happened here, the only monies that have been put into the roads here over the past few years have been done on an emergency basis by a cooperative effort of the Douglas County and Carson City County public maintenance departments. They have put in small amounts of money to maintain potholes or some shoulder breaking down completely so that buses carrying Girl Scouts (Girl Scouts of America) or ROP (Right of Passage) people, and all the people that lived at the Camp year round could get in and out of the camp without risk of life and limb.
[Jim Alexander] We’ve had four overturned vehicles on the road this spring by this heavy snow because it was not being plowed. It is a concern for all of us who live in the canyon. No public agency, at this time, wants to step in and take responsibility for the maintenance of the road until it is brought up to some reasonable condition. That is probably a cost at or greater than the value of the whole Youth Camp (Clear Creak Youth Camp) at this time. There are some issues there. I think if the State deeds this land to the FFA, I would hope that somehow we could engineer into A.B. 371 some cooperation from NDOT (Nevada Department of Transportation) to establish right-of-ways or in some way help resolve the problems of access up and down that road, or get some public agency to take responsibility for it. That was my reason for raising that issue.
Assemblyman Goicoechea:
So technically, what you’re saying, there probably is an easement through eminent domain.
Jim Alexander:
“Prescriptive” I think is the term.
Assemblyman Goicoechea:
Right, prescriptive easement, but there’s nobody who wants to step up to the plate and say, “We will maintain it.”
Jim Alexander:
At this time, that is correct.
Andy Rice, Chairman, Dias con Cristo Christian Organization, Nevada:
[Introduced himself] Dias con Cristo is a Christian retreat organization previously known by the names of Tres Dias and Cursillo (Exhibit E). Over the past 29 years, we have held over 100 weekends using the Clear Creek facility beginning in 1974. Over 6,000 members have used Clear Creek, coming from our organization. In the last 12 months, revenues generated have been approximately $8,000 for the facility. Over the years, we have performed repairs and maintenance, some of those possible on the slides that were shown to you, including painting of the dormitories, replacement of flooring that was badly in disrepair, and also laying of concrete at our own personal expense.
Interestingly enough, our organization was instrumental in the acquisition of this facility by the State of Nevada from the federal government in the early 1970s. Our participants primarily reside in northern Nevada communities, such as Carson City, Reno, Sparks, Gardnerville, Fallon, and Fernley. Our concern is that there is a shortage of suitable facilities for youth organizations, and religious and civic organizations. It’s imperative that we continue affordable access to Clear Creek. We come recommending that the FFA (Future Farmers of America) be able to take over the facility.
[Andy Rice] But in the bill, A.B. 371, we would like to amend the utilization of Clear Creek (Clear Creek Youth Camp) to include not only youth organizations, but also that it says civic and religious organizations would be able to use the facility as they have over the past many years.
Assemblyman Collins:
As the sponsor of the bill, I agree to that amendment. I believe that the FFA Foundation also would – I see them nodding their heads – so we can put that on the record right now that the benefit and purpose of this is to improve the facility and make better use of it. That would include organizations such as you described. I find it interesting that you have to pay the rent and still fix it up, too.
Vice Chairman Claborn:
I’d like to call Mr. Jacobsen and Mr. Murphy. Mr. Jacobsen, would you like to start?
Lawrence Jacobsen, citizen, Douglas County:
I guess I’m the old-timer on this project; I’ve been with it all my life practically. It started out back in the early 1960s. Through my efforts, the property was transferred to the State with some exchange of federal property at Lake Tahoe. It’s been a headache from that day on, mostly because nothing was secured initially. The right-of-way, the water rights, you name it, almost everything just went wrong. A great deal of it probably came under the Marlette Lake Committee (Marlette Lake Water System Advisory Committee). You’re wondering why that is, because that’s way over in this area here. One of the reasons we got involved was because the water rights at Clear Creek were never secured to the State. Through Roland Westergard, who was the State Engineer then, we got that all put together, and today the water rights are in the name of the state.
Clear Creek Road has been the controversy since day one because it’s between Douglas County and Carson City. Whenever it got too bad, I was able to get either one county or the other to plow it out. Over the last few years we’ve had our own small plowing equipment and were taking care of it through the Camp personnel. A couple of years ago, former Senator Jack Regan and myself tried to transfer it over to ROP (Right of Passage); they were interested and are still interested today.
[Lawrence Jacobsen] In the meantime, I became a member of the FFA Foundation; I am a past president of the Carson Valley Chapter of FFA. I guess you’d say I’m one of the founders.
We’ve explored all kinds of things with the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp) itself. I’m also the Director on the 4-H Camp at Lake Tahoe. We’ve tried, over the past few years when the camp at Tahoe is full, to use Clear Creek. I had a personal interest in the Camp itself. I was the one who invited the federal government to come in there with the Job Corps Camp and build a camp. That was not easy. The people in Carson City had some concerns about the Job Corps Camp located nearby.
Over the years, it’s been very productive. Some of you may be familiar with the CCC [Civilian Conservation Corps] of many years ago. There was a camp in Gardnerville at one time, and they took care of most of the horse activity along the range. [He provided personal information about his long-time affiliations with local fire departments.] The Job Corps Camp, or Spooners as we know it, is one of the greatest assets; it’s God’s country. I’m sure the people that are there on a religious retreat find the atmosphere to be just perfect. Over the years, it’s been allowed to deteriorate. We’ve tried our best to maintain it.
Mr. Meizel is here in the audience, head of Buildings and Grounds (Buildings and Grounds Division), and we worked closely together. I’ve worked with just about everybody that’s been up there. [Humor about a Job Corps Camp blarney stone.]
At one time, you might say it was self-contained. It had its own carpenter shop, plumbing shop, and they handled all their own repairs. That’s one of the reasons that I was really interested in ROP. They suggested they could come in and repair it with the children they had. I don’t know how many of you are familiar with ROP, but they’re mostly located in Lyon County and run a very good show. They also have a place in Douglas County in Minden; they run some crews out of there. That’s private enterprise of course; that’s why, I guess, we weren’t able to sell the Job Corps Camp.
We put it under the Governor where he wanted it, because he wanted control of it. It was a little more than what he could handle. Over the last few years it’s been a hit-and-miss affair. The Fire Service has used it on occasion. It’s a fire-prone area; the gymnasium burned down, the main one that was built initially. I don’t think any of you on the Committee should make a decision without going up there and taking a look. Seeing is believing. It’s an asset that belongs to the State and we should utilize it in some manner or sell it, but we can’t continue to let it sit there.
[Lawrence Jacobsen] One of my interests, of course, was the Stewart Indian Agency. Through my efforts, I was able to regain the title. The Legislature gave them the title initially, to utilize it as an Indian School for Indian children. The only thing that irritated me was very few children came from this area. Most of them came from other states. I played football there and had my face ground in the dirt, so I have a personal liking for the place. After we took ownership of it, we had a number of problems removing the hazardous materials. I cataloged about 5,100 hours in Stewart. I went to work every day, used my own equipment, and worked with the personnel out there. I have a great love for the area. We tied that to Spooners within the last few months, using our personnel from Stewart to help maintain it.
[He discussed the men’s and women’s Honor Camps, and the utilization of inmates in fire support personnel. He also commented on their activities relating to Hobart and Marlette Lake and the fish hatcheries.]
It’s the best effort we can put forward.
[He recounted the drowning of an inmate in Lake Tahoe while providing construction assistance to the 4-H Camp.]
I’m just trying to point out to you that there is some area that is fractured.
[He commented on the benefits of the inmate crews and his hope to show the Committee members the Marlette fishery operation.]
I realize I’m getting off course, but I want to paint a big picture, because it’s not just one little isolated area. Spooners is one of those great assets that I think we have to capitalize on, not wish it would go away. It’s not without problems; I will admit that. The water source is there, as far as vested water is concerned. Access is a problem, but not a real problem, because there could be access to the current Clear Creek that runs up now, or Spooners. We do have a temporary access there for fire purposes. Its one of the greatest areas you’d ever see; don’t take my word for it, go up there and take a look. Any questions you have I’ll try to answer.
Vice Chairman Claborn:
Thank you, Mr. Jacobsen, that was enlightening in the details. Are there any questions of Mr. Jacobsen? Hearing none, thank you, Mr. Jacobsen. We appreciate it.
Gary Murphy, resident, Carson City:
[Introduced himself] It has been my privilege and pleasure to attend 24 consecutive retreats at the Clear Creek Camp. I’m with a group of men and women in recovery that uses that facility twice a year, both in the winter and the summer, so we have had an occasion to use that road that sometimes doesn’t get plowed, and that’s been patched. They’ve done the very best they can with it. We’ve also enjoyed the rustic surrounding, and the peace and tranquility that the facility has to offer.
I thought it was a real good suggestion to go up there and take a look at it. While you’re at it, have somebody open up the dining area for you and walk by and look at the posters on the wall. What we’re talking about here is preserving the history of that particular area. I know, personally, several people that, one, two, or three generations, who have participated in summer camp up there. You still see a lot of the posters on the wall – people who have brought their kids, and they were brought there as kids. That’s been a big and vital part of their lives. I’ve had the experience in the past 12 years, hearing different rumors about it’s been taken or it’s going to go here or going to be sold there. Feeling a sense of loss almost, that it would no longer be available.
I’m glad to see that the FFA (Future Farmers of America) – when we first heard that they were going to take it over, it was a really good feeling for us. As it was put to us, they were going to continue the traditions that Clear Creek (Clear Creek Youth Camp) has offered and services to so many people here. Like I said, multiple generations. They’re the quality of people who would take care of a heritage like that. Ours is historical, but also selfish in certain terms. We have found it a great place to meet. It’s a good place to take people who need to get away from pressures and provide them the educational and spiritual experience that you can get at Clear Creek, and probably not many other places still in the world.
We also operate under a 501(c)(3); having access to these facilities is a great help to us also. We’d support the FFA having this facility. Thank you very much for allowing me to share.
Vice Chairman Claborn:
I think it would be enlightening if the Committee did happen to see that up there. I haven’t ever seen it; it looks dilapidated. It could probably be fixed up. Are there any questions of Mr. Murphy?
Lawrence Jacobsen:
I’d like to add very quickly, my interests were personal. [He commented on his supplying of gas and oil for the Job Corps Camp all the years they were there.]
Doug Busselman, Executive Vice President, Nevada Farm Bureau Federation:
[Introduced himself] We are here today to speak in support of A.B. 371. Nevada Farm Bureau is a strong supporter of not only the Nevada FFA (Future Farmers of America) but also the Nevada FFA Foundation. We believe that the actions called for in this piece of legislation will do, not only good for securing the future of FFA in the state of Nevada, but will also provide some very valuable hands-on experience for FFA students around the state as they participate in the improvements, as well as some of the marketing and other kinds of activities that need to go into the facility to make it successful. Nothing teaches like the experience you get from firsthand, hands-on kinds of opportunities, and we believe Clear Creek (Clear Creek Youth Camp) would provide those.
Also, Stephanie Licht from the Nevada Woolgrowers Association was not able to be at the meeting, but she asked that I do a “me too” for her, as well. With that, we would urge your support for A.B. 371.
Jim Fry, CWCP, CPL, Deputy Risk Manager, Risk Management Division, Nevada Department of Administration:
[Introduced himself] One of the things that concerns me about the language, I’m not quite clear where the liability lies if this goes through. Does it still ride with the State because it would revert back to the State if it was ever sold? Or does it fully transfer over to the FFA? That was just something I brought up after reading through this that I wanted to point out to the members of this Committee.
Assemblyman Collins:
Everything is going to lie on the FFA Foundation once this passes. They would be responsible for any liability when they turn it back over, if they ever turn it back over to the State. That’s pretty simple; that’s implied and that’s our intent.
Jim Fry:
Yes, sir, I was just concerned about the language.
Assemblyman Collins:
If you gave your address, we can have the Research Division get you a legal opinion on that. The point is, from looking at those pictures, if you didn’t get to see them, I’d like you to get a look at them.
Jim Fry:
I’ve been up there.
Chairman Collins:
Then you know what kind of job we’ve been doing as a state.
Pam Wilcox, Administrator, State Lands Registrar, Division of State Lands, Division of Conservation Districts, Nevada Department of Conservation and Natural Resources:
[Introduced herself] With me is Mr. Meizel, who is the administrator of the Division of Buildings and Grounds, which currently manages Clear Creek [Clear Creek Youth Camp]. We’d like to have Mr. Meizel lead off for us.
Mike Meizel, Administrator, Buildings and Grounds Division, Nevada Department of Administration:
Clear Creek has been under the Department of Administration ever since the State took it over. It’s been under our Division since about 1995, when we took over the facility’s management. For a number of Sessions, I’ve talked to you folks about the fact that we had to do something with the Clear Creek Youth Camp in the future because I didn’t feel it was prudent for the State to continue with it. We really had no expertise in running youth camps. We couldn’t garner enough money. The camp had a budget of about $250,000 a year, of which about $100,000 was appropriated from the Legislature. It was never self-sufficient. Actually, we never had enough money to maintain the facility.
At one time, we tried to see if there was someone in-house in the State. We looked at the State Parks Division; it seemed like maybe it would be the best fit. It really wasn’t. It didn’t fit into their scheme. The unfunded liability part of the Camp still raised its head. That brought us up to the present, where this session we wanted to make a recommendation to do something with the Camp. Either have a long-term lease with someone, which we did have and RFP (Request for Proposals) and FFA (Future Farmers of America) was the only group that came forth. FFA is obviously a reputable group, and it does a lot of good work. We support them 100 percent.
The issue with this bill is dollars and cents. The Administration doesn’t feel it’s prudent – particularly in a year like this in which we’re pretty financially strapped, in the state – to not pursue selling the Camp. That’s really what we’re supporting. State Lands (Division of State Lands) has an RFP (Request for Proposals) for an appraisal, which will be due very shortly. We’ve estimated the Camp’s value at about $3 million, but that’s really a ballpark value. We don’t have an appraisal to back that up, but we will have an appraisal. When we get the appraisal, it’s our desire, in FY04 (fiscal year 2004), to put the camp up for sale.
Assemblyman Marvel:
How much money is in the budget for O and M (operations and maintenance) right now?
Mike Meizel:
For the next biennium, it’s about $250,000 a year. That’s the budget for the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp), of which you will appropriate out of the General Fund around $100,000 a year. There is a CIP, a capital improvement project, and that’s probably the one you’re talking about, for some life safety improvements for the Camp, which is close to $1.5 million. We felt that if the State kept it, the State would have to put that in to it to just bring it up to modern code, that does things like repair the concrete, does a lot of fire alarm work, and some roofing. As you saw in the pictures, it really would bring the Camp pretty much up to standard.
Assemblyman Marvel:
Does that make the cut for CIPs?
Mike Meizel:
Yes. That made the cut; however, we haven’t proceeded with that CIP. It was on last biennium’s CIP list.
Assemblyman Marvel:
Is it on now?
Mike Meizel:
It’s still there, in the CIP.
Assemblyman Marvel:
But it’s never been funded?
Mike Meizel:
It was funded.
Assemblyman Marvel:
Last session?
Mike Meizel:
Last session, yes.
Assemblyman Marvel:
What did you do with it?
Mike Meizel:
It’s still sitting there; the $1.5 million hasn’t reverted yet.
Assemblyman Marvel:
You can’t make any improvements.
Mike Meizel:
We haven’t made any improvements, mainly because we were determining what we wanted to do. We didn’t want to make the improvements and then sell the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp).
Assemblyman Marvel:
So it further deteriorated.
Mike Meizel:
Yes.
Assemblyman Conklin:
I’m curious; you said something that’s piqued my interest. This camp is worth $3 million on the market to sell. In an economy where we are looking at cutting, and looking at revenues, I sort of understand why we might sell it. But the flip side is we have a lot of kids out in the community, 250,000 in the state of Nevada, which we’re talking about cutting programs. The Camp, which is already paid for, has an organization which has already said they’ll pay for and make the appropriate, necessary improvements to it. We give them this, we haven’t spent a dime, and yet for the next 10, 20, 30, or 50 years we have programs that we’ve helped. What’s that worth, $10 million, $20 million, $30 million?
Vice Chairman Claborn:
Who was that comment addressed to, Assemblyman Conklin?
Assemblyman Conklin:
Anyone who would like to answer it.
Pam Wilcox:
All of us sitting here at this table are very much in favor of youth programs, and have tried to keep that camp going for a long time. It’s just a question of fiscal prudence at this point in time. That camp, in spite of the repeated and continued expenditures that the State has made, it continues to go downhill. The buildings are very old; they were not built to very high standards at the beginning, and it’s a question of fiscal prudence what the State should do. I’d be happy to give you a few facts to fill out your record.
The Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp) was, as Mr. Jacobsen said, originally built by the federal government as a Job Corps facility. It was open in the mid 1960s, from about 1965-1969. It came to the State under a special use permit in 1970, and the State operated it as a youth camp and a camp for a variety of groups from 1970 until now. In 1987, the title transferred to the State. We exchanged a valuable, prime piece of land that we had in the Incline Village area. The Forest Service [U.S.] owned the camp; the piece in Incline was a piece the Forest Service wanted to own. There are no restrictions on the land; the State can do with it as the State wishes.
We have done an initial estimate of value at about $3 million. We have an RFP [Request for Proposals] out for an appraisal now. We hope to have it appraised while you are still in session; hopefully by early May, we’ll have an accurate appraised value. It’s a valuable property. It’s one that the State has tried very hard to continue to make available to youth groups for a very long time. We all think FFA [Future Farmers of America] is a great group. But at this point, when the State needs money the way it does, it doesn’t make very much sense to continue to put large amounts of money, every year, into keeping this facility going, when it is an asset that can be managed as an asset and sold as an asset.
Assemblyman Marvel:
When the title was transferred to the State of Nevada, did it cost the State anything?
Pam Wilcox:
We gave them a piece of land at Incline Village that had the same value; that was a valuable piece of land.
Assemblyman Marvel:
But there was no cash.
Pam Wilcox:
We did not take any cash out of our pocket.
Assemblyman Marvel:
Assemblyman Conklin makes a very good observation.
Assemblyman Mortenson:
To me, it just seems like a terrible philosophy to say when we’re down-and-out, we get rid of parks. I don’t know how it is in northern Nevada, but in southern Nevada we have something on the order of two. I realize it’s not park land, but still it’s State land that can be utilized somewhat, open space or something. We have in southern Nevada, about 2.5 acres per thousand, and the national average is 10 acres. We are failing so badly; our objective is to try for four acres in the southern Nevada area, and we haven’t. Actually it’s 1.8 acres; we haven’t even made half of our objective, and our objective is one-fifth, far below the national average.
I just don’t understand why facilities for people are the expendable part when we get into trouble financially.
Assemblyman Carpenter:
Mine won’t be a question like the rest of them. I think if you get $3 million for it, then some subdivider is going to come up and divide it. I don’t know if you’d look at it as State land or not. It looks to me like it’s land that belongs to the people in the State, and it’s better off to go towards projects of youth or whatever so it will continue like that. The State is not going to get a chance to ever get property like this. It seems to me it should stay in a public ownership which I would think that the FFA (Future Farmers of America) would be because they’re going to be using it for all sorts of programs and helping kids.
I guess $3 million is a lot of money, but it isn’t anything to what we’re looking at. We’re not going to have bad times forever, so it seems to me that it’s a better situation to give it to a group that’s going to continue on and be able to utilize it for youth, rather than to look at a short-term deal of getting some money out if it; probably going to spend it on something that we really won’t get much value out of in the long run. This will keep continuing. If they can only do half of what they say with it, to me it’s worth a lot more than it is for putting it on the auction block and get another subdivision going.
Vice Chairman Claborn:
Ms. Wilcox, is that the end of your testimony?
Pam Wilcox:
Unless there are any questions.
Mike Turnipseed, Director, Nevada Department of Conservation and Natural Resources:
[Introduced himself] I’ve always held FFA in high regard. One of my favorite things to do is eat, and you can tell that by my waistline, although I know the FFA does a lot of other good things. I think Mr. Meizel told you, but two years ago he wanted to rid himself of the property and tried to give it to me. We already have more parks that are in need of repair; the last tally was about $30 million in backlogged maintenance items. I didn’t want to take on another one and turned him down.
You haven’t probably seen it yet, but you may, and I just want to address it before you do see it. Back in December, I sent a letter to the RFP [Request for Proposals] Committee, the committee that sent out for proposals. I supported either the long-term lease or transfer of the Clear Creek property to whomever the pick was proposed. That is a matter of public record; it’s a letter I sent in December. That was, however, before I heard from the Governor, and before I heard we were in such dire financial straits. Beyond that, Mr. Meizel and Ms. Wilcox pretty much said it all. I’ll try to answer any of your questions.
Assemblyman Collins:
Mr. Turnipseed, I guess I compare it to, I had a pretty good old horse, but I wasn’t riding him anymore. I could sell him on an auction block, or can him, in other words. Or I could give him to somebody that would ride him and make use of him, and get a more valuable life out of that horse. I’d give that horse away before I’d can him. Not out of sentimental reasons, but out of the benefit that the youth or whoever got to go ride him, as well. I thought of that example because I just brought my horse up here last night.
I guess that’s about the simplest way I can bring it down to something we could all visualize. Here’s a piece of property that the State hasn’t even made sure there was a right-of-way, legal road to it. Is that correct? Can you all state that road is not really legal or not?
Pam Wilcox:
There is no legal easement for the road, but there is obviously a road in place. It certainly could not be closed off. It would be an easement by adverse possession.
Assemblyman Collins:
It’s kind of like something else, we just let it go. As long as they can get there, we won’t worry about that part.
Pam Wilcox:
Actually, we’ve participated in many of the solutions. You were told that there were benefits over the years with many work committees that have tried to come up with solutions. We’ve participated in many of those. The most consistent maintenance the road has had over the years has been by the Clear Creek personnel and staff who have repaired the road. They kept it patched together and cleared the snow. Once again, that’s one more burden for the State to bear. It’s been, as Mr. Jacobsen said, a property that brought a lot of headaches with it from the beginning, but we’ve kept on because we all believe strongly in the groups that use it. There has to come an end to every road.
Assemblyman Collins:
It’s kind of like, if I just couldn’t afford the hay to feed that good horse, then I’d give him away before I’d can him. That’s another comparison. The FFA doesn’t want all of the property. They, I believe, are willing to concede the portion on Highway 50 for a ramp and access for a developer to put a road down at the west end to go out into the valley for proposed development, if that should occur.
I ask you, in your $3 million ballpark figure, does that include the World War II surplus beds that are in those buildings, or whatever those antique things are? Would that include being deducted from that $3 million the abatement for whatever asbestos might still be in the building and other things that might need to be cleaned up? Are we getting down to the $1.5 million you need to make it clear? Before you answer, can you expand on what life and safety issues are that might be – to remove your liability to access, just to use the facility, there’s $1.5 million that you need to spend for life and safety? If you can answer those questions for me.
Mike Meizel:
There are 120 acres; $3 million is a really broad ballpark figure. We took the core 40 acres and figured those were buildable acres. We took the 80 acres and felt they were pretty much unbuildable acres. We tried to come up with some comparables in the area like that, and came up with $3 million. I’d be the first to say that could really swing one way or the other on the appraisal. The rest of the balance of the money – I think we came up with $49,000 of assets. They involve vehicles that are up there, shop equipment, and beds, but the beds were valued really low. I don’t really put much of a value on those beds, which was the only equipment that was really valued. The shop equipment and all the various things came up with the balance of that amount of money.
The $1.5 million life-safety, that’s a figure that State Public Works Board came up with. Originally, it was somewhere around $1 million. They added some roofs and some other stuff, like fuel tank work to remedy that. I think that work was done. The life-safety involves things like all the concrete, parking areas, modern fire alarm systems throughout the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp), and the roofs that are leaking. The $1.5 million was pretty much the hardcore stuff that in my estimation, if the State continued, they would have to have the $1.5 million done.
[Mike Meizel] Don’t get me wrong, I’m saying we shouldn’t continue, and that’s the premise that I’ve gone under. My original testimony to the dual committees, going back to your old horse, I think we either need to give the horse away or bring it to the sale yard. I don’t think the State can continue doing what we did, even with the $1.5 million, but the $1.5 million does do all of those projects to make it really habitable.
Assemblyman Collins:
Had this bill not been brought forward, would you be pursuing as actively to dispose of that property? Also, I think the Governor said, “I spend $250,000 per year.” If we could reduce the expenditures the State Lands Department (Division of State Lands) for what you’re spending up there, and for what it looks like, you could put that to better use somewhere else. I think – as was brought up, these tough times we’re in – I remember eating black-eyed peas for a week, and it was a lot tougher than this. These tough times we’re in would be the best time to get out of that burden, not to wait for a better time.
Being able to gift it, with the restriction that you got the property back in 100 years if FFA (Future Farmers of America) goes away and all of a sudden we’re all nuclear scientists or something, and don’t have to grow food anymore. I guess the question would be that the void of having that continued burden in your budget for all those future years would more than offset giving Clear Creek Youth Camp away. You wouldn’t have to go through all those other procedures of getting someone to bid on it with conditions of “you clean up this and fix that.” Can you tell me one reason, in your heart, why you wouldn’t just give it to them right now? Just one reason.
Mike Meizel:
I didn’t hear the last thing.
Assemblyman Collins:
One reason, in your heart, why you wouldn’t just give it away right now, if you could. If you had the power with your pen, to just strike a deal and say, “Here you go FFA, you go fix it up, take care of it, bring more people to it, advertise it statewide, bring youth and religious and civic organizations in there,” and have a campsite they can be proud of, cleaned up, that doesn’t have asbestos insulation or fiberglass insulation hanging out of the rafters of the gymnasium, or have the roof falling down, the floor cracking up, those old crummy beds in it, and walkways that are pathetic. Answer my question.
Mike Meizel:
There is one reason; it’s the Governor I work for, number one. And the fact is, I have, and everything you’ve said is true, the one thing we don’t want to do is continue with the $250,000 that we’re spending. We don’t want to continue that. We don’t want to keep it for two or three years, deciding what we’re going to do with it because that money still has to be spent. My area of interest is in those interests. In other words, trying to find a way to not have the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp) be a burden on the State. What I don’t have is the knowledge, which was made aware to me, of the State’s financial problems. Bottom line, that’s what brought us to the fact of whether we should sell or enter a long-term lease. It has nothing to do with the fact that we want to be out of the camp business; we do want to be out of the camp business. But the dollars, the $3 million or $4 million or $2 million or whatever it comes to in a sale, if that sale is possible, is what we really feel we should probably pursue first.
Assemblyman Marvel:
Is that potential money in the budget right now?
Mike Meizel:
No, it isn’t. You’d have to appropriate your share of it this next biennium.
Assemblyman Marvel:
It wasn’t anticipated for the next biennium, was it?
Mike Meizel:
But it is in the budget.
Assemblyman Marvel:
Is it?
Mike Meizel:
Yes, we do have a budget for it.
Assemblyman Marvel:
The money for the sale?
Mike Meizel:
No, not the money for the sale; the money for operations.
Vice Chairman Claborn:
I want to thank Assemblyman Collins for bringing his horse in here; it made horse sense to me. Everything he said made horse sense. Are there any more questions?
Assemblyman Mortenson:
Mr. Meizel, did I hear you say that you did have some money for reparation, repairs, and so on, and that it will revert back to the General Fund if you don’t spend it?
Mike Meizel:
Yes, Assemblyman Mortenson, we have $1.4 to $1.5 million in the State’s Capital Improvement Program that you approved the last biennium. If we don’t spend that, it will revert, fairly shortly, I understand.
Assemblyman Mortenson:
Is there some pressure on you not to spend it and let it revert? Or could you go forward and try and repair this and let the FFA have it, presuming this bill goes through? I’m sure you’re probably reluctant to do that.
Mike Meizel:
We were reluctant. The pressure was that we didn’t want to expend the $1.5 million, not knowing exactly what we wanted to do. That was the bottom line. If we really sold it, we wouldn’t want to expend the $1.5 million. If we entered a real long-term lease, we wouldn’t want to expend the $1.5 million. If we were going to enter a short-term lease, one of the options that we also considered, we would expend the $1.5 million; we felt that that would be prudent. But because it was $1.5 million, we played with a lot of alternatives on what to do with it. What we didn’t want to do was commit the expense until we knew what we were going to do.
Vice Chairman Claborn:
Are there any more questions? Seeing none, thank you for your testimony. At this time, I will turn the Chair back over to Assemblyman Collins.
Chairman Collins:
I have one question: when you say real long lease, are you talking 50 years to 99 years? Yes or no, just nod your head, 50 minimum? [Mr. Meizel indicated that was correct.]
Mike Patterson, citizen, Sparks:
[Introduced himself] I just listened to the testimony. I wanted to make the Committee aware of two things. First, I think as a citizen, I agree with Assemblyman Conklin; it’s foolish to take $3 million, which is a drop in the bucket, and throw away these services for our youth. Also, I don’t know if the Committee is aware or not, but the State has already taken action to close the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp). As of April 1, 2003, the Camp’s been shut down, and they have notified all users (Exhibit F) that the commitments and reservations that were made were cancelled.
Chairman Collins:
Someone from the State come and address that, please, Mr. Meizel or Ms. Wilcox.
Pam Wilcox:
We were in the back of the room and Mr. Meizel couldn’t hear the question. I thought I’d repeat it for him. Mr. Patterson was saying that they received notice in April that the camp would be shut down this summer. It’s my understanding that was because the lease with FFA (Future Farmers of America) was being negotiated, and we knew at that point that we were either going to come to a successful end of the negotiations to lease it to FFA or we were going to market it for sale. One way or the other, we wanted to give the different youth groups that had been using the facility enough advance notice so that they could make other plans for the summer.
Mike Meizel:
To add to that, one of the other issues that came up, our maintenance person up there is retiring at the end of April; he’s moving to Idaho. We talked to FFA about it. Obviously, when we’re talking about lease, FFA didn’t want – unless they knew they had a lease – they didn’t want to staff it from April to whenever they took it, say July. We didn’t want to hire someone from April to July, so we felt the only thing we could do in light of all this was to cancel the Camp, the groups up there.
Chairman Collins:
The next question is, in the negotiations of the lease, weren’t those to allow those who were already using it to continue using it and the FFA would manage?
Mike Meizel:
Yes; we didn’t have any – exactly.
Chairman Collins:
You couldn’t transfer somebody from this beautiful property we’re in today to go up there and do a little sweeping and painting? Aren’t you over these groundskeepers here too? No? I’m sorry.
Mike Patterson:
I just wanted to bring that to your attention.
Chairman Collins:
That slams all these folks sitting out here from these other groups. I apologize. Is there anyone else out there who wishes to speak on this bill one way or another? If not, that’s fine, but I’m just giving you the opportunity. I’m going to bring the hearing back to the Committee and ask for some discussion from the Committee.
Assemblyman Goicoechea:
In light of the last testimony, maybe we should change the date on when it becomes effective, and make it upon passage. Apparently, we’re looking at a very short time frame, so I offer that as a friendly amendment.
Chairman Collins:
Mr. Barbee, how soon could FFA (Future Farmers of America) go in there?
Jim Barbee, Agriculture Education Consultant, Nevada Department of Education:
As long as we had control, the reason we had chosen not to fill that gap was because we would not be receiving any of the money made off of the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp), so it’s pretty hard to run a business with expenses but no income. As soon as we would be gifted or deeded the facilities we would be willing to take over management at that point.
Assemblywoman Ohrenschall:
I agree with Assemblyman Goicoechea about trying to hasten it.
Chairman Collins:
We’re close enough to vote on this. I wasn’t sure if we would be close enough to do that today, but I think – that’ll be part of the motion. [Responding to an inaudible inquiry by Assemblyman Marvel.]
ASSEMBLYMAN GOICOECHEA MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS A.B. 371.
ASSEMBLYMAN CLABORN SECONDED THE MOTION.
Chairman Collins:
We have a motion to amend and do pass and a second that would amend to allow other civic groups and organizations for the primary use of the camp to continue as it has with it under the administration of the FFA. Upon passage and approval it would be referred to Ways and Means Committee. Is there any discussion on that issue? Before I take a vote, I’d being willing to haul members of this Committee who haven’t seen that facility up there, if those pictures weren’t enough. As a representative of the State of Nevada, you’d be ashamed that people in the past here, including myself, haven’t been able to push for more money to be spent there. [Chairman Collins called for a vote but it was left incomplete due to further discussion.]
Assemblyman Carpenter:
We’re talking about the total 120 acres, right?
Chairman Collins:
Yes, and we’ll let that get carved up at the right time. That’s a good question; that’s probably why I was waiting to vote on it. Let’s go ahead and move this bill. Mr. Barbee, do you know where the boundary line would run that would give the highway department (Nevada Department of Transportation, NDOT) that easement? And actually, would the State still own it, and you could just take part of it? Give us a clarification there.
Jim Barbee:
The understanding that I have, and the discussions we’ve had with the Foundation Board (Future Farmers of America Foundation) is that the highway department would be taking the piece that would border that western boundary. It would basically carve off a piece. I think there are some people behind me who can speak more intelligently to what that plan is. Our main thing is we want the main body of the Camp (Clear Creek Youth Camp) – I know there’s an additional piece of property that’s connected to it that’s on the north side of Highway 50, which is pretty much – we can’t have kids walking across Highway 50. There’s nothing we could do with it. That piece is irrelevant to us, but we would like to keep everything south of Highway 50 that is not utilized by the highway department so that we have the opportunity to expand, given the opportunity.
Chairman Collins:
Assemblyman Goicoechea, would you like to amend your motion to allow for it to be as described, minus the portions needed by NDOT?
Assemblyman Goicoechea:
That would be fine, but as I look at the bill, it says “consisting of 120 acres, more or less.”
Chairman Collins:
Okay, but for the terminology for the amendment –
ASSEMBLYMAN GOICOECHEA MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS A.B. 371.
Assemblyman Goicoechea;
Yes, I would amend my motion that allows for the withdrawal of whatever properties were necessary for the NDOT (Nevada Department of Transportation) easements.
ASSEMBLYMAN CLABORN SECONDED THE MOTION.
Chairman Collins:
The maker of the motion has an additional amendment; did everyone get that? Okay, we’re going to vote this again.
THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Chairman Collins:
One final thing, Committee members, April 25-26 is our trip to Ely. It might include Elko as well, but it’s our tour to Ely. There are limited seats on that plane. I need on your legislative stationery, signed by you, “Yes, I plan to go.” We will leave on Friday between 12:00 and 1:00, and return here by Saturday evening. We will travel the eastern parts of the state; so if you’re going, I need that letter before April 1. I’d actually like to get it by the end of next week. We need minutes from Assemblyman Christensen, now that he’s back from his delivery. We had a member who became very pro-labor for awhile, while his wife delivered. Assemblyman Christensen now has four young sons; he’s on his way to a basketball team. Any other business for the Committee? Seeing none, we’re adjourned. [Adjourned at 3:36 p.m.]
Erin Channell
Committee Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Assemblyman Tom Collins, Chairman
DATE: